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12:34 < waxwing> https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity17/technical-sessions/presentation/tang
12:37 < waxwing> there's slides as well as the paper but i don't know how to get twitter to give me the direct link, so here's the tweet: https://twitter.com/0x0aTang/status/898681186016296960
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13:10 < fluffypony> waxwing: http://0x0atang.github.io/files/usenix17_clkscrew_slides.pdf
13:10 < waxwing> thanks. areyouawizard.jpg ?
13:12 < gmaxwell> sadly my expirence is that arm is the new "windows quality hardware"
13:13 < gmaxwell> back in the 90s, lots of linux users would complain about the reliablity of varrious bits of hardware... often it wasn't more unreliable under linux, but the instability of windows masked the hardware's unreliablity... so there was a lot of unreliable hardware on the market: windows quality hardware.
13:13 < gmaxwell> with mobile there is a lot of incentive to underpower undercool and undercomponent. ... very few arm devices I've ever tested are actually stable under sustained load.
13:13 < gmaxwell> Even without doing psycho stuff like tinkering with the power management.
13:18 < waxwing> i know nothing about this stuff but it strikes me as amusing that a device like that would have power management for economy reasons :)
13:19 < midnightmagic> I have two reliable reports now of solid-run stuff being stable under load. :-/ It's incredibly disappointing that this is even a conversation.
13:20 < waxwing> or ... i guess the point is that the TEE is only part of the device, ignore my ignorance :)
13:20 < gmaxwell> even novena which is generally very reliable can be overheated and hit thermal shutdown unless actively cooled.
13:21 < gmaxwell> waxwing: yea, it has a seperate HSM like zone for running user hostile DRM stuff (I'm not opposed to TEE in concept but they never let the users run their own software there... soo)..
13:21 < Emcy> hardware was bad but so was windows so nobody noticed
13:21 < Emcy> haha thats mamazing
13:21 < gmaxwell> which you can apparently bypass by using the power management to induce falts.
13:21 < Emcy> an example or a really efficient market though, perhaps
13:22 < gmaxwell> Emcy: in a free market the quality of most goods will tend to the the threshold of being noticably bad.
13:22 < waxwing> midnightmagic: what's "solid-run stuff"?
13:23 < Emcy> yes, which the hardware was apparnetly
13:23 < gmaxwell> http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/
13:23 < Emcy> is consumer pc hardware better/more stanle now though? Id have expected the opposite
13:24 < Emcy> stable*
13:24 < gmaxwell> Emcy: some of it is more stable. Windows got more reliable.
13:25 < Emcy> i guess it helped we figured out solder that doesnt go dry in 6 months without using lead
13:28 < Emcy> >quoting Discordian literature
13:28 < Emcy> SSC never disappoints
13:29 < kanzure> it should be more surprising when things don't quote chaordic text.
13:30 < Emcy> i should just let myself be taken by it
13:30 < Emcy> i should have done it years ago
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 21 00:00:55 2017