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(www.adiirc.com)] 03:15 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:28 -!- jannes [~jannes@095-097-246-234.static.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:28 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:34 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@188.188.77.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:37 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 03:59 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-234-120.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:59 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:18 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:21 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:23 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:24 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:31 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:31 -!- rusty1 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:38 -!- str4d [~str4d@host86-137-249-179.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:44 -!- str4d [~str4d@host86-137-249-179.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:56 < bsm117532> nopara73: nice review of mixing ideas. So you're proposing a Chaumian coinjoin? 04:57 < bsm117532> Personally I think the practical value of mixing is little, unless you can make the anonymity set be the the entire output set (a la Zcash). 04:57 < bsm117532> Correlation analysis is still incredibly powerful when only some coins get mixed. 04:57 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:06 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:07 -!- cottenio_ [~cottenio@50-249-9-157-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:07 -!- JeremyRu1in [~jlrubin@biohazard-cafe.mit.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:07 -!- cottenio_ is now known as cottenio 05:07 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: gmaxwell, eck, stiell, jl2012, fluffypony, CryptoTraderClub, HSF_Prince_Loaf, echonaut2, Emcy_, warren, (+8 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 05:07 -!- fluffypony [~fluffypon@coreteam.getmonero.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:07 -!- fluffypony [~fluffypon@coreteam.getmonero.org] has quit [Changing host] 05:07 -!- fluffypony [~fluffypon@unaffiliated/fluffypony] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Emcy_ 05:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: fletom 05:07 -!- rusty1 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:09 -!- execute [~execute@52.68.0.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09 -!- stiell [~stian@fsf/member/stiell] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:10 -!- warren [~warren@fedora/wombat/warren] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:10 -!- eck [~tGysJVzRq@151.56.197.35.bc.googleusercontent.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:15 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19 -!- Ruben [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- Ruben is now known as 18VAB2TS5 05:22 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- gwollon [~gwillen@50.116.8.236] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- gmaxwell_ [~gmaxwell@140.211.15.28] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- HSF_Prince_Loaf [sid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wmrrdmbcmynsvjcl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- forrestv [forrestv@unaffiliated/forrestv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- jl2012 [uid133844@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-isdnvleermcqsayi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- rodarmor [sid210835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxwsgkfrsforhuoq] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- trotski2000 [sid206086@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sbdvzrsnnukgcezr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- CryptoTraderClub [sid28532@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sggrwhhkzwipthni] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- wpalczynski [sid55851@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xovkgzccqnkiuopq] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- jcluck [~cluckj@static-173-59-27-112.phlapa.ftas.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:22 -!- rodarmor [sid210835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxwsgkfrsforhuoq] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:22 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:24 -!- rodarmor [sid210835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-krbiciduxrqbtnnc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:24 -!- warren [~warren@fedora/wombat/warren] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:26 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has quit [Quit: Waiting for .007] 05:26 -!- warren [~warren@fedora/wombat/warren] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:29 < instagibbs> bsm117532, prob not true for at least current de-anon tech; every spend mixing with some other spender(and doing smart things like dumping change) would confuse these services greatly. Lots of things wallets can do to be more private 05:29 < instagibbs> fatalism results in additional privacy loss, in other words :) 05:30 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@static-100-38-216-231.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@static-100-38-216-231.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:30 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:31 < bsm117532> And incomplete solutions (small anonymity sets) provide a false sense of security :-P 05:32 -!- coinsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:33 -!- packetsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:41 < instagibbs> only if users act differently based on the knowledge of their wallet doing it. I don't think users actually care/understand... 05:46 -!- packetsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:47 -!- coinsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48 -!- echonaut [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48 -!- echonaut3 [~echonaut@46.101.192.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:49 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:51 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:55 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:56 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:57 < bsm117532> instagibbs: agreed. That's why I think the anonymity set must be all transactions, by default, or privacy tricks such as coinjoins just provide a false sense of security. The battle to explain why users need privacy will be a losing one. 06:03 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06 < nopara73> What do you mean by correlation analysis? 06:07 < nopara73> @bsm117532 (1) Yes, I do. (2) You must use what you can for Bitcoin. You cannot create altcoins all the time. But I think the expected hundredish real anonymity set would be sufficient to say it's fully anonymous. Add to the rest of the proposals those are aimed to defend against network level privacy attacks in ZeroLink and you're practically more safe than an altcoin (see the popular flawed usage of Monero, through mymone 06:08 < bsm117532> nopara73: you got cut off at mymone.... 06:09 < nopara73> @instagibbs In ZeroLink the users cannot use it in a flawed way, eg. no input joining allowed, which results in UX problems, what ZeroLink tries to mitigate with UX recommendations, too: https://github.com/nopara73/ZeroLink/#coin-selection 06:09 < nopara73> *mymonero web wallet 06:13 < bsm117532> nopara73: With insufficient mixing, a correlation analysis is still useful, and there have been reports that the NSA can still de-anonymize mixed transactions with very high accuracy. 06:13 < bsm117532> Hey this is pretty interesting https://www.coursera.org/learn/cryptocurrency/lecture/WAiaS/mixing 06:21 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:22 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxexwwpahnzmonln] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:31 < nopara73> @bsm117532 Agree, high liquidity must be achieved over time. There is no way around that. 06:31 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-240-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:33 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:33 < nopara73> @bsm117532 I saw that lecture, it's great. If I remember well he's missing out private transaction retrieval and he's proposing an improvement upon centralized traditional mixers, how they should conform with each other, but the mixer can still link together in his proposal. 06:35 -!- vdo [~vdo1138@unaffiliated/vdo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:57 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hkeqwaphceoqoysv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:57 -!- nopara73 [d556dd23@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.86.221.35] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:06 -!- 18VAB2TS5 [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:14 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:16 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:35 -!- nopara73 [d556dd23@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.86.221.35] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:39 -!- coinsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:43 -!- packetsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:43 -!- airbreather [~airbreath@d149-67-99-43.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@188.94.18.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57 -!- momentropist [~momentrop@c-73-70-82-29.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:57 -!- momentropist [~momentrop@c-73-70-82-29.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:02 < kanzure> why are there no linebreaks in the lecture transcript for https://www.coursera.org/learn/cryptocurrency/lecture/WAiaS/mixing 08:08 -!- packetsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:09 -!- coinsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:10 -!- esotericnonsense [~esoteric@unaffiliated/esotericnonsense] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:12 -!- coinsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:13 -!- packetsmurf [~packet@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:18 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:18 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-240-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27 -!- Aranjedeath [~Aranjedea@unaffiliated/aranjedeath] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:28 -!- prime [~quassel@5.146.5.174] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:29 -!- prime is now known as Guest92665 08:40 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:47 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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