--- Log opened Sat Sep 16 00:00:04 2017
--- Day changed Sat Sep 16 2017
00:00 < Guest59991> hi guys need help with a raw transaction signing can anyone help by pm?
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03:05 < fluffypony> Guest60956: #bitcoin-dev
03:09 < fluffypony> oh wrong guest
03:09 < fluffypony> lol
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07:36 < belcher> it seems its possible to actually increase the block interval via a SF, from the point of view of pre-SF nodes the miners are inexplicably creating blocks less often than the difficulty allows them, but that is still in line with the consensus rules. So the new SF rule is new_difficulty = old_difficulty * factor
07:37 < andytoshi> it is very hard to make this play nicely with the diffchange algorithm
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07:37 < belcher> thinking about this in light of the rumours that china will use DPI and GFW to ban the p2p network, if the increased latency causes mining to centralized inside china then the horrified economic majority may do this via a UASF
07:38 < belcher> isnt the difficulty retarget exactly the same but multiplied by a factor?
07:38 < andytoshi> no, it will be constantly trying to lower the difficulty to adjust to the slow blocks
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07:39 < belcher> so that means after a few difficulty readjustments the non-SF nodes would accept very low difficulty blocks, and therefore be vulnerable to 51%
07:40 < belcher> it may still work in a SF that gets less secure as times goes on, the non-SF nodes have a dozen or so readjustments before they really should upgrade
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11:15 < esotericnonsense> wouldn't that (potentially) result in reorgs \every block
11:16 < esotericnonsense> (for the pre-SF clients)
11:17 < esotericnonsense> the post-SF chain would have the most work done in the long term, but you could mine a block on top of it with the pre-SF diff and they'd accept it (which is then going to be reorged out if you see two post-SF blocks)
11:17 < esotericnonsense> it depends on a majority of hashpower choosing to move to the post-SF situation
11:18 < belcher> yes, so users would have to wait for more confirmations especially non-SF users
11:18 < belcher> its certainly a less safe form of SF
11:19 < esotericnonsense> actually, i'm not sure how current clients deal with that
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11:19 < esotericnonsense> is the target enforced to be the correct value, or >= the correct value
11:19 < esotericnonsense> additionally, if you already have a block at height N with target K, and then see a block at height N with target K*2, do you reorg to take the latter block, or do you wait for N+1 with target K*2
11:21 < esotericnonsense> it seems to me that if you enforce target >= correct value, the diff algorithm would need to take an average or a median of the target in the last interval (or just the target the client expects it to be)
11:22 < esotericnonsense> if it immediately updated I could bash away, mining at a very low target, and now suddenly everyone has an insanely high diff
11:23 < esotericnonsense> (if you don't change the target in the block at all, but the post-SF rule is that hash has to be target / factor, then the pre-SF clients would consider the chainwork to be far lower than it actually is)
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--- Log closed Sun Sep 17 00:00:20 2017