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00:50 < intcat> sipa: not sure if this is the right channel for this - seems to fit the /topic - but could you give a bit of an explanation of https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/75himf/roger_lying_about_segwit_getting_rid_of_signature/do6iye3/
00:51 < intcat> i thought the witness data was there to validate the tx it is part of, not any future txes, do i misunderstand?
00:51 < sipa> yes, that is correct
00:52 < sipa> but they're still needed to verify that tx, now or later
00:54 < intcat> right, but in theory they can be pruned "immediately" and dont need to wait for the tx outs to be spent
00:54 < sipa> *everything* can be pruned immediately
00:54 < sipa> it's just not done, so that we can give blocks to other peers
00:55 < sipa> but for just ourselves, we never need blocks anymore after they're processed
00:55 < intcat> well all block data, yes
00:55 < intcat> UTXOs obviously cant be pruned
00:55 < intcat> i just thought your reddit post implied some sort of UTXO-like limitation on pruning the witness data
00:55 < sipa> of course, we're talking about block data
00:55 < sipa> no, not at all
00:55 < intcat> but thanks for clarifying :)
00:56 < sipa> it is in theory possible to prune just the witness data, at which point you can still serve lightweight nodes
00:56 < sipa> but not full nodes
00:57 < sipa> however, that is not implemented in any software i know of
00:58 < intcat> i think the misreading came from what is meant by "needed once" - from a node's perspective this is true but network-wide the witness data of course needs to be part of the full blockchain (and therefore needs to be archived in a fullarchive node)
01:01 < sipa> i've updated the post a bit
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08:33 < Guest98628> Quick question. I see on Brave New Coin [0] that Bitcoin Gold is supposed to have difficulty readjustment every block, i.e. the epoch length is one block.
08:33 < Guest98628> [0] https://bravenewcoin.com/news/bitcoin-gold-a-friendly-dividend-fork-or-bitcoins-disaster-recovery-plan/
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08:33 < dionyziz> Is that true? If so, doesn't that directly mean that a Bahack-style attack is possible with non-negligible probability for a minority-power adversary?
08:34 < dionyziz> This seems like an obvious attack, so I'm curious if I understood something wrong here.
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12:43 < esotericnonsense> dionyziz: I'm looking at the "Difficulty Raising Attack" section in https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/868.pdf, it seems overly simplified to the point of missing details to me
12:44 < esotericnonsense> my vague suspicion is that they're using height rather than chainwork to determine a 'win'
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12:48 < maaku> sipa: FYI the "cpuid_count" family of functions don't exist on the macOS toolchain
12:48 < esotericnonsense> in the simplified section, "The attacker is going to keep try mining two blocks (the last of the current window and the first of the consecutive window) such that the difficulties sum of the faked branch will exceed that of the honest network".
12:48 < sipa> maaku: ok
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12:49 < sipa> inline asm it is
12:49 < esotericnonsense> it is clear to me that given enough trials eventually that in isolation can succeed (any low hashrate miner can get a few blocks back to back with some probability)
12:50 < maaku> sipa: well, __cpuid_count exists. just not the __get_cpuid_count inline helper function
12:50 < esotericnonsense> but it seems to rely on 're-using' this 2014 block chain that's been mined, you can only use it once, the network will race ahead of you in chainwork
12:51 < maaku> sipa: here's the header as it exists on latest XCode in 10.13 : https://0bin.net/paste/b7Z9ZllnKsInvAle#tVCHXlk98t5QFhajDt80A2oMGS9GttrPvteNsbYUX+G
12:53 < gmaxwell> esotericnonsense: well it starts off with a broken 'network superiorty' belief that you could get 'network superiority' by running lots of sybil nodes that forward your blocks without verifying them, unaware that nodes forward blocks to other full nodes without verifying them already.
12:54 < gmaxwell> sounds to me that it starts off describing 'selfish mining' but it's apparently unaware of the prior work there.
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12:57 < esotericnonsense> I skipped forward to the diff raising part thinking that it was independent, heh
13:03 < esotericnonsense> yeah, the former section doesn't work either.
13:04 < esotericnonsense> it seems to rely on an expectation that an attacker will see a competing block at the same height and be able to propagate theirs before that hits the rest of the network
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