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05:19 < stevenroose> Anyone read the paper on Mobius?
05:19 < stevenroose> (Trustless Tumbling for Tx Privacy)
05:19 < stevenroose> They have a very generic definition of stealth addresses.
05:20 < stevenroose> Way more generic than the original writeup of Peter Todd
05:20 < stevenroose> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-January/004020.html
05:22 < stevenroose> THey say "In cryptocurrencies, stealth addresses refer to addresses that have been derived from a master key, but that cannot be linked to other addresses derived from the same key."
05:22 < stevenroose> Is this a common definition?
05:22 < stevenroose> (It sounds to me more like a description of HD wallets.)
05:23 < stevenroose> They do follow with "The addresses generated by hierarchical deterministic (HD) wallets can be viewed as a form of stealth address"
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06:14 < andytoshi> i'd probably call anything that fits that description a "stealth address", yeah, but i've never seen it defined except in specific forms
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09:09 < akrmn> So back to what I was saying 2 days ago...I was just reading about SNARKs being used for Zcash and Hawk. And apparently the creation of proofs is cpu intensive, but the verification is quick. But what about space efficiency (storing in segwit data)? Is that the problem? Can someone give me links to more reading for how short these proofs are with current knowlege.
09:10 < akrmn> also I know andytoshi worked on Mimblewimble. So how do the proofs compare among different cases for the sidechains (bitcoin based, mimble wimble, something else)
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10:12 < Chris_Stewart_5> Is it possible to *prevent* the usage of confidential assets if you have included CT in a blockchain?
10:16 < sipa> CT and CA are not the same
10:16 < Chris_Stewart_5> hmm, I thought the primitives were the same
10:17 < sipa> yes, they both rely on ring signatures
10:19 < sipa> your question is similar to asking is it possible to prevent the usage of RSA if you have included ECDSA in a blockchain
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10:37 < kanzure> sipa: or he is asking about covenants
10:42 < sipa>  if you're using covenants the resulting asset types wouldn't be confidential, i expect
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13:54 < roconnor_> I think Chris was thinking that confidential transactions were so confidential that you coudln't tell if there were other assests invloved.  However, I think the fact of the matter is that the range proofs in CT prove that there are no other assets involved.
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18:31 < Chris_Stewart_5> el gamal commitments are orthogonal to what is written about in the bullet proof paper right? I.e. the optimizations dont apply to those
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18:36 < sipa> indeed
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18:53 < Chris_Stewart_5> damn
18:57 < sipa> or rather, it would work, but you wouldn't get the soundness guarantee that el gamal commitments otherwise have
19:01 < Chris_Stewart_5> sipa: Hmm, so it is severely diminished? Because isn't perfect binding way more important?
19:01 < Chris_Stewart_5> like would it be trivial to unmask the amount?
19:03 < Chris_Stewart_5> for a 3rd party to unmask the amount obviously
19:03 < sipa> Chris_Stewart_5: el gamal commitments are perfectly binding but not perfectly hiding
19:03 < sipa> pedersen commitments are perfectly hiding but not perfectly binding
19:03 < sipa> our former rangeproof construction can be made to work with either
19:04 < sipa> bulletproofs cannot be perfectly binding
19:04 < Chris_Stewart_5> ah
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22:25 < waxwing> sipa, "A hypothetical future CT proposal for Bitcoin could make the rangeproofs not affect the weight." <- how so? rangeproofs are witness data right, but how would it be possible to not affect the weight at all?
22:28 < aj> waxwing: you'd have a separate witness for it with a different weighting?
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22:30 < waxwing> aj, re: different weighting, sure i could understand that (depending on how expensive verification is i guess), but i didn't read the above quote in that way; perhaps that was the intent.
22:30 < sipa> waxwing: yes, new witness type for CT
22:31 < sipa> which is costed differently
22:31 < sipa> possibly as 0
22:31 < waxwing> ok. so .. unfairly private transactions? :)
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22:39 < sipa> it was a hypothetical :)
22:41 < waxwing> yeah it's unfortunate that there's a zero lower bound here :) negative weight may lead to some ... rather large witnesses being produced :)
22:49 < sipa> well, if the cost for a rangeproof is 0, you'd still want it strictly limited i  size
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 16 00:00:16 2017