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06:41 < waxwing> looks like the schnorr aggregation paper is on preprint now, gmax put up a reddit post: https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/068.pdf
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07:37 < nsh> ty waxwing
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07:43 < nsh> would you put stake a $<large number> on one-more DLP being sufficiently close in hardness to the primitive DLP over a given elliptic curve.
07:43 < nsh> there are separation results and proofs of algebraic non-equivalence (but no practicable attacks that i'm aware of)
07:44 < nsh> (despite an equivalence by extraction of schnoor signatures to DLP under the ROM)
07:44 < nsh> for forgery at least
07:44 < andytoshi> yes, i would bet on that
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07:45 < sipa> also, the proof in our paper is sort of modular; if you (trivially) extend the protocol to have 3rd precommit phase like BN does, an analogous proof exists that only relies on DLP
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07:46 < sipa> perhaps that should have been in a footnote somewhere
07:47 < nsh> oh cool
07:48 < nsh> i suppose there's very little chance that the loss factor would be worse than e.g the birthday attack on P2SH
07:49 < andytoshi> nsh: link to separation between DL and OMDL? i'm curious about this, i see separations between one-more DH but not DL .. but maybe my google-fu is not strong enough
07:49 < nsh> http://www.monnerat.info/publications/one_more.pdf
07:49 < nsh> maybe misread diagonally and it doesn't apply
07:49 < andytoshi> thanks
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08:00 < andytoshi> heh, so, this gives a separation in the generic group model (actually more general than this, but the GGM is a special case) ... but in the generic group model, DL is hard, so.. :)
08:01 < andytoshi> what the paper shows is that you can't break DL in the generic group model .. and if you're given an oracle that lets you break n discrete logs, then you can't break n+1
08:03 < andytoshi> but the conclusion here is that if you break OMDL, you're either using a non-PPT algorithm (like a quantum computer) or you're exploiting specific properties of the group. my claim is that in either case, you can break DL, so in practice they're equivalent
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16:23 < contrapumpkin> so I asked this a while back, but given that a transaction that is only spendable once a month isn't obviously possible in bitcoin, has anyone come up with a clever scheme to do that?
16:24 < contrapumpkin> I can't think of an obvious way to do it even with ZKCP or the like
16:24 < contrapumpkin> since the ZKCP needs to be a "pure" computation, and the state of the blockchain (or a clock) can't really be factored into it
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16:26 < andytoshi> if there were an OP_ZKP you could require a zero-knowledge proof of so many valid blocks existing on top of some specific one, which'd give you a crude clock
16:27 < contrapumpkin> would OP_ZKP have some sort of block state input?
16:27 < contrapumpkin> otherwise how would it differ from a more conventional ZKCP?
16:27 < andytoshi> it differs in that the blockchain is validating it
16:27 < contrapumpkin> oh fair enough, because I don't have an obvious counterparty with ZKCP
16:27 < andytoshi> rather than a counterparty. if you have a trusted counterparty available you can do this with ZKCP
16:28 < contrapumpkin> the issue with OP_ZKP is that the thing being proved might be huge, right?
16:28 < andytoshi> yeah
16:28 < contrapumpkin> hmm
16:28 < andytoshi> oh, actually i think i need witness encryption here rather than a ZKP..
16:28 < andytoshi> and WE is much harder
16:28 < contrapumpkin> aw
16:29 < contrapumpkin> I really want to insulate myself from the temptation of the ups and downs of the market by locking my coins away this way :P
16:29  * contrapumpkin writes a BIP for native support for this
16:29 < andytoshi> lol, well, you can write a ledger or trezor app which just won't sign until such and such a time
16:29 < contrapumpkin> no, it MUST be decentralized
16:29 < contrapumpkin> >_>
16:30 < andytoshi> you could put a mirror far out in space, and transmit your private key to that, then you'd have to wait for it to bounce back before you could spend it
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16:30 < contrapumpkin> excellent idea! I'll spend 90% of my bitcoin on putting the mirror out there and the rest will not be spendable most of the time
16:31 < contrapumpkin> I guess ethereum could do it
16:31 < contrapumpkin> but I'm not really a fan of that
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 19 00:00:29 2018