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You need a censorship resistant public broadcast to have key rotation. 04:29 < bsm117532> And the web of trust is an utter failure. There's no reason I should trust the people you trust. 05:00 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:00 -!- mnkk [~mnkk@ip5f5ae26b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:05 -!- mnkk [~mnkk@ip5f5ae26b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:06 -!- str4d [~str4d@27.110.123.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 05:17 -!- mnkk [~mnkk@ip5f5ae26b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:20 -!- mnkk [~mnkk@ip5f5ae26b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:24 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:36 -!- douglas__ [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:36 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:03 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:21 -!- kenshi84 [~kenshi84@2400:4027:2bd5:1200:7c5d:a8c6:a971:1bd8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:24 -!- btcdrak [uid236341@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jpwlzjwsflsxdaan] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:25 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:26 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@h-13-35.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:27 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:38 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:41 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@h-13-35.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:43 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:43 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:46 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:48 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:55 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:57 < fluffypony> bsm117532: yes you should, the people I trust are awesome 06:58 < fluffypony> I think WoTs can work if they're qualitative and not quantitative 06:58 < fluffypony> ie. *why* do I trust Bob, not what is Bob's cumulative trust score 07:02 -!- adrao [~ircap@x4e3431eb.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:06 -!- otoburb_ [~otoburb@unaffiliated/otoburb] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:06 -!- otoburb [~otoburb@unaffiliated/otoburb] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:07 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:11 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:12 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:13 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-34-125-15.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:21 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-34-125-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:21 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:25 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:28 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web501.webfaction.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:36 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:37 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:40 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-34-125-15.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:40 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-34-125-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:40 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:46 -!- jcorgan [~jcorgan@unaffiliated/jcorgan] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:02 < kanzure> fluffypony: how do you represent a why? and if it's qualitative then how does someone unrelated use the WoT? do they read all the whys? 08:03 < kanzure> sybils can create a lot of why text, you know. 08:08 < fluffypony> kanzure: I was thinking that asking is the most qualitative 08:08 < fluffypony> so if I want to know if I should trust Bob, and you trust Bob, then I should ask you why you trust him 08:11 < kanzure> after you ask and agree, you flip a trust bit in your local WoT wallet? 08:11 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11 < fluffypony> I'd only flip that bit after successfully dealing with Bob 08:11 < fluffypony> then someone can ask me why I trust Bob 08:12 < kanzure> i think this is going to limit what other systems can do with your WoT 08:12 < fluffypony> well then maybe it's down to the threat model, right 08:12 < fluffypony> like if I'm using the WoT to get an accurate timestamp this is largely unecessary 08:13 < fluffypony> but if I want to know if I can perform a $10 000 BTC trade then it's perfect 08:15 -!- blazon [9d25e02d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.157.37.224.45] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:16 < blazon> hello bitcoin wizards, could you guys review this virtualchain idea @https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HNahQifaOh_A0BOMOG9E81aZ6L34LeswqpZNuAxKl4k 08:16 < blazon> does it look like a proper usage of op_return 08:19 < kanzure> blazon: who is a virtualchain 08:19 < andytoshi> a hash per transaction? no. 08:19 < kanzure> fluffypony: do you see applications integrating with that WoT to do trust automation things? i had assumed that was the primary interest in WoT stuff that folks had. 08:19 < blazon> hash per transaction in virtual chain, and a hash per block in parent chain 08:20 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-34-125-15.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:20 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-34-125-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:20 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:20 < kanzure> blazon: you should use opentimestamps if you want to aggregate hashes into a merkle tree in bitcoin 08:20 < kanzure> and/or you should gut opentimestamps. 08:22 < blazon> kanzure, I was thinking a linear traversal using most recent txid, I guess you are suggesting a faster/non-linear traversal using opentimestamps, sure I will google around this feature never used it 08:22 -!- JackH [~laptop@i25091.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:23 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has quit [Quit: Waiting for .007] 08:25 < blazon> kanzure: anyone using some similar approach in your knowledge ? 08:25 < fluffypony> kanzure: yes, we can replace PoW with PoWoT and problem solved 08:25 < fluffypony> :-P 08:34 < blazon> PoWoT ? 08:40 < Varunram> proof of WoT 08:43 < blazon> T ? 08:43 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47 -!- JRob [171fe329@gateway/web/freenode/ip.23.31.227.41] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:02 -!- btcdrak [uid236341@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jpwlzjwsflsxdaan] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:03 < BlueMatt> bsm117532: yo 09:03 < BlueMatt> regarding p2pool-style pools, do you anticipate needing more than 252 outputs for the pool payouts? 09:04 < BlueMatt> thats like 5kb of payouts 09:05 < BlueMatt> err, sorry, 255 09:05 < BlueMatt> with values like 8kb 09:08 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has quit [Quit: o/] 09:12 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-34-125-15.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:19 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-34-125-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 09:19 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:27 -!- mnkk_ [~mnkk@ip5f5ae26b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:29 -!- mnkk [~mnkk@ip5f5ae26b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:31 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:1cd:f8c0:e91a:f8b] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:35 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37 -!- blazon [9d25e02d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.157.37.224.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:37 -!- p0nziph0ne [p0nziph0ne@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/p0nziph0ne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:41 -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:42 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:59 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:1cd:f8c0:e91a:f8b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:17 -!- adrao [~ircap@x4e3431eb.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: • IRcap • 8.72 •] 10:27 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@195.181.167.149] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:30 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@195.181.167.149] has quit [Client Quit] 10:54 -!- marcoagner [~user@156.97.60.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:59 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:03 -!- vicenteH [~user@195.235.96.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:04 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:04 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:18 < maaku> another "oops" -- the segwit commitment tree should have been (txid1 wit1 txid2 wit2 ... txidN witN) 11:19 < maaku> so use cases which care about witness data but not the full block (e.g. sign to contract) could fetch less data 11:19 < gmaxwell> but more data for anyone who cares about a proof of both or witnessless. 11:20 < gmaxwell> different orderings were considered. 11:21 < maaku> i don't think so...? 11:21 < maaku> both would not include the txid since you're sending the information 11:22 < maaku> witnessless you send the path through the main blcok-tx merkle tree 11:23 < maaku> it would add 32 bytes if you wanted to fetch the witness for the nth transaction in the block without knowing or caring the contents of the tx or its hash.. but what use case would that be? 11:23 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web501.webfaction.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:25 < maaku> would have been especially better if segwit commitment was put in the terminal block and a power-of-2-plus-1 number of transactions limitation was emplaced 11:25 -!- marcoagner [~user@156.97.60.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:27 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:28 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:31 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:37 < maaku> does anyone have a link to a good writeup of SDL's proposal to have a power-of-2-plus-1 number of transactions so the final tx has a short proof? 11:37 < maaku> my google-fu is failing me 11:42 < maaku> Ah, TierNolan not SDL : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=847538.0 11:49 -!- coinsmurf2 [coinsmurf@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:52 -!- coinsmurf [coinsmurf@96-66-250-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:57 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:02 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:02 -!- str4d [~str4d@27.110.123.91] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:05 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:46 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:53 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@h-13-35.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:59 -!- vicenteH [~user@35.233.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:02 -!- opdenkamp [~opdenkamp@kodi/staff/dushmaniac] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:07 -!- kabaum [~kabaum@h-13-35.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:27 -!- p0nziph0ne [p0nziph0ne@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/p0nziph0ne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:35 < kanzure> "Dandelion++: Lightweight cryptocurrency networking with formal anonymity guarantees" https://arxiv.org/pdf/1805.11060.pdf 13:36 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:41 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@h101-111-047-163.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:46 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 13:51 < gmaxwell> kanzure: oh good, that is much closer to the forwarding behavior I was proposing on some PR before dandelion came along, but they can analyize it. 13:54 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:07 < gmaxwell> lemme summarize the forwarding logic in it 14:12 < gmaxwell> At each epoch every node decides if it is going to be a diffuser or stem relayer. If it is a diffuser it will diffuse everything it gets. If it is a stem relayer it picks uniformly at random two outbound peers to be stem outputs. Every peer is randomly assigned to one of these outbound edges. When a transaction arrives flagged for stem-phase processing, it's passed along to the corresponding o 14:12 < gmaxwell> utput. All the random selections are redone every epoch (paper seems to assume 10 minutes with synchronized clocks, probably in practice we'd use block reception I guess) 14:13 < gmaxwell> When you send your own transactions, you use the same output every time (during the epoch) 14:14 < gmaxwell> And of course, everyone has a timeout, and if a stem phase transaction you've seen vanishes, you diffuse it eventually yourself. 14:32 -!- str4d [~str4d@27.110.123.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:33 -!- douglas__ [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:44 -!- lukedashjr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:44 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47 -!- lukedashjr is now known as luke-jr 14:48 < grzs> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bips/blob/master/bip-XXXX.mediawiki 14:50 < BlueMatt> yes? 14:53 < grzs> sorry wrong paste! 14:53 < grzs> sounds crazy but wrong channel 14:54 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:57 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:44 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:48 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:19 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:21 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:25 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:30 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0c4:ff64:84a3:faa2:d300:a095] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:32 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0c4:ff64:84a3:faa2:d300:a095] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0c4:ff64:84a3:faa2:d300:a095] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:34 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0c4:ff64:84a3:faa2:d300:a095] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0c4:ff64:84a3:faa2:d300:a095] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:45 < bsm117532> fluffypony, kanzure: if you used the word "trust" you already failed in my mind. 16:46 < bsm117532> Protocols should not need "trust". 16:50 -!- vicenteH [~user@35.233.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:52 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0c4:ff64:84a3:faa2:d300:a095] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0c4:ff64:84a3:faa2:d300:a095] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:57 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0c4:ff64:84a3:faa2:d300:a095] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:05 < bsm117532> "trust" is a shitty mapping from 32 bits of data that a piece can remember to 256 bits of entropy in a key. 17:05 < bsm117532> *piece of meat 17:05 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:06 < bsm117532> BlueMatt: no, I think we can create payment channels with a single output in a coinbase, and all of the other share-chain payouts absorbed on the share-chain. 17:06 < bsm117532> Why? 17:06 < BlueMatt> bsm117532: see above mislink, lol 17:06 < BlueMatt> new mining protocl-based question 17:07 < BlueMatt> ie should I support "pool server" providing more than 256 outputs 17:07 < BlueMatt> please do read through that protocol and make sure the fields the pool is allowed to fill in are sufficient for your use-case 17:07 < bsm117532> I see no reason to do that if Lightning exists. 17:07 < bsm117532> This? https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bips/blob/master/bip-XXXX.mediawiki 17:07 < BlueMatt> yes 17:07 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09 < bsm117532> As long as the share-chain commits to the payments over Lightning (meaning, if that coinbase ever matures, miners already posses the payout transaction) then the main-chain coinbase doesn't need to be any larger than a Lightning channel opening. 17:11 < bsm117532> This requires (probably) a separate Lightning network of "unmatured" channels, because we have to have a different logic WRT a channel is "open". 17:12 < bsm117532> But anyway, this removes the giant coinbases of p2pool 17:19 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:22 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:25 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:29 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:31 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:31 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:31 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:31 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:33 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:33 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:34 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:37 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:38 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:41 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@KD111239134186.au-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:44 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:47 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-202-6.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:47 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-202-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 17:47 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:49 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-202-6.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:56 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-202-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 17:56 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:06 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 18:13 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-202-6.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:13 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-202-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 18:13 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:29 -!- str4d [~str4d@27.110.123.91] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:34 -!- str4d [~str4d@27.110.123.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:01 -!- a87ry5_ [~a87ry5@static-108-29-95-16.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:04 < a87ry5_> In the event dandelion is deployed, its rate of adoption would follow historical upgrade patterns (i.e. would not happen overnight). Might an attacker be able to sybil attack the network with dandelion-incapable nodes to limit the possible number of routes available to dandelion-capable nodes? And then from there have greater ability to construct a transaction's source? 19:05 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:05 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:06 -!- BCBot [~BCBot@46.101.246.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06 -!- BCBot [~BCBot@46.101.246.115] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:06 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:11 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-202-6.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:18 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-202-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 19:18 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:11 -!- a87ry5_ [~a87ry5@static-108-29-95-16.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25 < kanzure> you would want dandelion-style deployment of dandelion itself 20:48 < gmaxwell> a87ry5_: the recent paper linked to today complained about that, but I'm doubtful that its that interesting. 20:49 < gmaxwell> a87ry5_: we'd deploy code capable of relaying in stem mode a version or two ahead of code that actually uses it. 20:52 < gmaxwell> (e.g. an 'usestems' option which defaults to off, and later gets turned on) 20:57 < kanzure> defaults to on but not doing anything until turn-on date 20:57 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:57 < kanzure> (turn-on blockheight) 21:02 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:04 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0a6:2932:9c80:b8d9:38e8:3e13] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:06 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2001:268:c0a6:2932:9c80:b8d9:38e8:3e13] has quit [Remote 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