--- Log opened Fri Jun 08 00:00:40 2018 00:00 -!- rockhouse [~rockhouse@unaffiliated/rockhouse] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01 -!- rockhouse [~rockhouse@ipc-hosting.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:03 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:05 -!- rockhouse [~rockhouse@ipc-hosting.de] has quit [Changing host] 00:05 -!- rockhouse [~rockhouse@unaffiliated/rockhouse] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:08 < maaku> bsm117532: that's a flawed argument. you're saying "if all the other miners do X, the incentive for a given miner is also to do X" 00:08 < maaku> but that's presupposing that all the other miners are acting that way 00:09 < maaku> the very question is whether the incentives are such that the other miners should in fact be doing something else en masse 00:10 < maaku> selfish minig works because of a difference in information availablility which is just as true in a DAG model as otherwise, and there's no reason to think that witholding blocks won't work for the exact same reasons 00:14 < maaku> depending on the proposal in question you may have to mine a long chain, purposefully double spend, etc. 00:14 < maaku> it's kinda hard to say though because there aren't actually any proposals to analyze 00:15 < maaku> which makes it very unintersting to talk about at all /topic (for me at least) 00:46 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:14d5:373c:d37c:fe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:04 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@195.181.167.149] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:06 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:28 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:33 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:55 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:00 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:51 -!- RubenSomsen_ [uid301948@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gaonromyyeoueisv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:51 -!- RubenSomsen [uid301948@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqpmjzevisiidnia] has quit [] 02:51 -!- RubenSomsen_ is now known as RubenSomsen 03:20 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@195.181.167.149] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 03:21 < arubi> o/ , I've been thinking about an atomic coinswap scheme that uses a signature and a public point's discrete log as the secret in the script (instead of a hash). if it works, it could allow for unlinkability between two coinswap transactions. I wrote how it could be used as a drop-in replacement for CoinSwapCS style swaps here (PDF) : https://github.com/fivepiece/coinswap-blind-secret/blob/master/coinswap_blind_secret.pdf . I'd 03:21 < arubi> appreciate the input 03:25 < arubi> *the drop-in replacement is for the HTLCs (in case a swap fails) 03:29 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:34 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ajmpdcvinghikzjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:49 -!- Anduck [~Anduck@unaffiliated/anduck] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:52 < nickler> I haven't worked through the protocol but it looks useful in a non-Schnorr world. If we have Schnorr/taproot then adaptor signatures seem to be better at hiding the contract. Are you aware of https://github.com/apoelstra/scriptless-scripts/pull/1 ? 04:00 -!- suraeNoether [sid231938@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxvxhnrbhommdcxp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:01 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:03 < arubi> nickler, yea, actually waxwing linked this to me a couple of days ago but haven't worked through everything yet. I agree wrt usefulness in non-schnorr, where we have much better schemes. this one I linked can be used today (if secure :) ) 04:03 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:05 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:06 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:12 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:14 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has quit [Quit: Waiting for .007] 04:15 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:47 < bsm117532> maaku: If a DAG is used as a pool instead of a coin, you're beholden to the selfish mining properties in the parent chain. 04:47 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:47 < bsm117532> If it was a coin, you'd solve the selfish mining problem. If ALL miners are using the DAG-pool, you'd also solve the selfish mining problem. 04:48 < bsm117532> In between is messy. 04:53 < bsm117532> One idea we've bounced around is to have the braidpool actually execute the selfish mining algorithm against other pools, once it passes 34% of the total. This would force other miners to join the distributed pool, but is easy to subvert by "spy mining". And for that reason we probably won't do it. 04:57 < bsm117532> Throw an idea for an attack at me and I'll simulate it. 05:02 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:02 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:12 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 05:33 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47 -!- opdenkamp [~opdenkamp@kodi/staff/dushmaniac] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb1 - http://znc.in] 05:53 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ajmpdcvinghikzjj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 05:53 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:03 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:06 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-181-135-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:14 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:15 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:22 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has quit [Quit: o/] 06:50 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:11 -!- samm__ is now known as samm_ 07:17 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:34 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-41-234-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:48 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:55 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-72-54-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:01 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@host-lzquwqj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:46 -!- Guyver2_ [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:49 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:49 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 09:04 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:08 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-181-135-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:28 -!- vicenteH [~user@35.233.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29 -!- vicenteH [~user@35.233.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:02 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:06 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:14d5:373c:d37c:fe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09 -!- merlinsbeard [~Beard_of_@195.181.166.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:10 -!- nephyrin [~neph@67.183.153.159] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:11 -!- Jaamg is now known as Jaamg_ 11:13 -!- satwo [~textual@2602:306:378a:6fb0:601d:3285:6d0e:7564] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:24 -!- p0nziph0ne [p0nziph0ne@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/p0nziph0ne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:24 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-72-54-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:48 -!- son0p [~ff@190.145.253.116] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:05 -!- satwo [~textual@2602:306:378a:6fb0:601d:3285:6d0e:7564] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Log closed Sat Jun 09 00:00:41 2018