--- Log opened Fri Aug 10 00:00:35 2018
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02:24 < waxwing> re: the above, using bulletproofs for proving properties of sighashes, why not use zksnarks? it's not as if you're concerned with different crypto assumptions .. the proving time might be an issue, but it would be with bulletproofs also, but i bet it could be got round. Use of CRS/trusted setup wouldn't matter.
02:25 < waxwing> obviously only a suggestion, as i don't know about this stuff, but: isn't the tooling further on with zksnarks? i don't how far is "further" here.
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04:41 < nsh> missed the discussion. what properties are desirable to proof in zk about sighashes?
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05:19 < waxwing> the particular case under discussion was: you want to do a coinjoin, but you don't want to reveal your own utxo in advance, in case an attacker tries to enumerate your utxos by repeatedly requesting but not completing a join.
05:20 < waxwing> so in very vague terms you're wanting to prove to your counterparty that the sighash they're signing against has their correct inputs/outputs but you hide the part of the hashed material which displays your input utxo
05:20 < waxwing> see the logs, gmaxwell explained it ( a little) a couple of days ago
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05:39 < nsh> ty
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06:34 < instagibbs> is the performance of this proof the limiting factor? I'd expect it's validating the circuit etc
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07:14 < nsh> well, it's a hypothetical mitigation to a hypothetical attack disincentivising a largely hypothetical utility so i think the main limitation is that none of this is especially happening
07:15 < nsh> were there to be somehow large-scale orchestrated or encouraged coinjoins then we might see adversarial gaming and it'd be nice to preempt with a facility to show viability of join without risking enumeration
07:16 < nsh> but i don't think anyone has a scheme to get people to do CJs at a meaningful scale yet. (i may have missed things)
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07:21 < waxwing> agreed with the (amusing) characterisation, but enumerating attacks definitely already happened on joinmarket. and were ameliorated (debatable on the causality) by using a "PoDLE" (or DLEQ) technique. basically, translate your own utxos into privacy-preserving-in-public usage tokens. you have to use a token to "enumerate" others utxos.
07:22 < waxwing> but i think anyway gmaxwell 's point is well taken that such things are generically useful for bunches of protocols, so whether they get used in this exact context is only of some interest.
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07:37  * nsh nods
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12:36 < CubicEarth> I though I understood this chat - http://bitcoin.sipa.be/powdays-50k.png
12:36 < CubicEarth> but now I am not so sure
12:36 < CubicEarth> What is with the steep drops?
12:39 < CubicEarth> I would think the only thing that could cause a 1-day drop of 10% would be if the estimated network hash power grew by 10% in that day
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12:59 < sipa> CubicEarth: indeed; hashrate estimation is hard :)
13:02 < CubicEarth> for sure. but it seems the powdays chart is using a different method than here - http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png
13:03 < CubicEarth> sipa: And btw, I few weeks ago I was marveling at how the opening chart - http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-ever.png - basically has had the same shape for years now :)
13:06 < CubicEarth> But yeah, there are steep drops, but no equivalently steep rises, which is why I am wondering
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13:09 < CubicEarth> It looks like difficulty adjustments are causing the steps down? But I am not sure why they would factor in...
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23:26 < maaku> CubicEarth: my guess: the code that is making those charts is not properly accounting for the fact that immediately surrounding a difficulty drop blocks have different difficulties
23:28 < maaku> if difficulty rises 2% at block N, does the chart making plot (time(N) - time(N-2016)) / diff(N)?
23:29 < maaku> that would make the observed sawtooth pattern
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 11 00:00:36 2018