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AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:26 -!- dvknv_ [~dvknv@2605:a000:1301:61be:fcaa:3c71:92f1:1761] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:26 -!- dvknv_ [~dvknv@2605:a000:1301:61be:fcaa:3c71:92f1:1761] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26 -!- dvknv__ [~dvknv@cpe-74-140-134-27.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:27 -!- dvknv [~dvknv@cpe-74-140-134-27.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:34 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:49 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:50 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:53 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:01 * adlai thanks nsh for that bite-sized explanation of Shor's algorithm 05:29 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:34 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:35 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [] 05:50 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:57 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:08 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:08 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:12 -!- AaronvanW 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timeout: 256 seconds] 10:06 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:28 -!- Xantanium [~Xantanium@ip-149-248-188-189.fibre.fibrestream.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38 -!- opdenkamp [~opdenkamp@kodi/staff/dushmaniac] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:41 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:43 -!- opdenkamp [~opdenkamp@kodi/staff/dushmaniac] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:47 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:50 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:52 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:57 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:03 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@80.232.199.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08 < esotericnonsense> re claims a few hours back about PoS and 'maximum delay' 11:08 < esotericnonsense> and synchronicity of the network 11:08 < esotericnonsense> it's happened before and probably will happen again, but the recent issue seems pretty relevant on that point 11:09 < sipa> esotericnonsense! 11:09 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:09 < esotericnonsense> how the design functions during offline periods is quite relevant, if you had the network (or half of it, or 75% of it, or whatever) offline for 2 hours in Bitcoin it would barely matter 11:10 < esotericnonsense> aside from difficulty weirdness you don't even need a clock 11:10 < esotericnonsense> sipa: hello! 11:10 < esotericnonsense> (I am just here for a few seconds and heading out.. somehow happened to have this channel open :P) 11:10 < esotericnonsense> hope you are well 11:12 < sipa> o/ 11:16 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:17 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:22 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:24 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:29 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:40 -!- _tin [~tyn@2601:645:4100:87b0:3558:32ab:f685:7380] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:50 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:50 -!- _tin [~tyn@2601:645:4100:87b0:184f:3979:26f6:c1c9] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:53 -!- stefanwouldgo [2504fbbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.4.251.190] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:54 < stefanwouldgo> yeah, esotericnonsense, that's a good point. also, this seems an interesting negative result: https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1043552710086340609 11:57 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:20 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:21 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:25 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:31 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:31 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:35 -!- _tin_ [~tyn@2601:645:4100:87b0:184f:3979:26f6:c1c9] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 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13:56 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:57 -!- p0nziph0ne [p0nziph0ne@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/p0nziph0ne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:01 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:02 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:06 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:14 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22 < waxwing> i have a suspicion that this isn't new (did i see a talk about it a year or so ago?) but it might be relevant to above discussion: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1809.06528.pdf 14:23 < waxwing> "Formal Barriers to Longest-Chain Proof-of-stake protocols 14:23 < waxwing> " 14:25 < waxwing> some high-level comments here from Narayanan: https://twitter.com/random_walker/status/1043552710086340609 14:27 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:29 < adlai> Key intuition: 280 characters isn't enough, we need... 4960! 14:37 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:46 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:47 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:52 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:58 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:03 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:08 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:24 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:35 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:43 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:56 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:56 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:56 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Client Quit] 15:57 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:57 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:00 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00 -!- _tin [~tyn@73.93.141.85] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:03 -!- Guest54401 [~tyn@2601:645:4100:87b0:184f:3979:26f6:c1c9] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:08 < roasbeef> waxwing: iirc they gave a talk at BPASE earlier this year, and mentioned they had a paper coming out later, so that may be where you first saw some of their arguments 16:34 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@80.232.199.53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:44 < esotericnonsense> I'm rather inebriated right now, but a brief scan of that really has me stalling at the "under ideal network conditions" bit 16:45 < esotericnonsense> (waxwing's linked paper) 16:46 < esotericnonsense> there's an issue at another level which is that the protocol is not guaranteed to be what you think it is, and its behaviour under those circumstances is also important 16:46 < esotericnonsense> i suppose that's an issue of defining what is the 'network' and what isn't 16:47 < esotericnonsense> basically, if you think the network functions as "a" and actually it functions as "b", can you stall for some time and recover a state in which the rules of "a" can continue without issue, or is it irreperably broken now because of that period 16:50 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:52 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:17 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] 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timeout: 244 seconds] 18:05 -!- JackH [~laptop@host-212-18-30-186.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:25 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:32 -!- Belkaar_ [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-34-243-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:34 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-89-0-108-203.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:34 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-89-0-108-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 18:34 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:36 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:47 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-72-54-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:06 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:25 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:29 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:30 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:37 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@2604:2000:e882:c800:863:e68f:e807:b315] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:38 < ruby32> hi where can I get in contact with some of the lightning network devs 19:38 < yoleaux> 18 Sep 2018 11:07Z ruby32: good morning, I believe you could try looking at sidechain commitment ideas like drivechains or my own proof-of-mainstake, and simply remove the peg, but to my thinking, it requires some data to be published on Bitcoin chain 19:38 < yoleaux> 18 Sep 2018 11:09Z ruby32: the publication of data could be hidden in a pay-to-contract construction where you commit your altcoin tx to a Bitcoin P2WPKH pay-to-contract with the altcoin tx as contract, but in the end you pay fees to the Bitcoin layer. 19:39 < ruby32> is yoleaux a bot? 19:39 < sipa> a relay bot 19:40 < sipa> ZmnSCPxj is on another network, but yoleaux relays messages between the two 19:40 < sipa> i think :) 19:40 < ruby32> interesting, I asked that question 4 days ago 19:41 < ruby32> Anyway, how is it going sipa? I was wondering about building a lightning network app using the sphinx protocol, just read the sphinx whitepaper and read through sphinx.go in lightning-onion 19:41 * sipa knows nothing about lightning 19:41 < ruby32> =( ok 19:41 < ruby32> I'll try to see if they have an IRC channel or somesuch 19:42 < adiabat> #lightning-dev 19:42 < adiabat> and other implementation specific ones 19:42 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:44 < adiabat> could also message roasbeef as he knows about sphinx / onion routing 19:45 < ruby32> Oh yeah, roasbeef and the others are pretty active in slack, iirc. Thank you adiabat 19:45 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@gateway/tor-sasl/thrmo] has quit [Quit: Waiting for .007] 19:55 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:08 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:08 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:30 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@2604:2000:e882:c800:863:e68f:e807:b315] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:9258:34b6:88ba:6eef:bb2e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:52 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@2604:2000:e882:c800:863:e68f:e807:b315] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:58 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@2604:2000:e882:c800:863:e68f:e807:b315] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@2604:2000:e882:c800:863:e68f:e807:b315] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:10 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 21:12 -!- son0p [~ff@adsl201-232-238-252.epm.net.co] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@2604:2000:e882:c800:863:e68f:e807:b315] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@2604:2000:e882:c800:863:e68f:e807:b315] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:52 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:05 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-72-54-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:19 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:20 < kanzure> "Formal barriers to longest-chain proof-of-stake protocols" https://arxiv.org/pdf/1809.06528.pdf 22:24 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-72-54-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:05 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@2604:2000:e882:c800:863:e68f:e807:b315] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:46 -!- _tin_ [~tyn@2601:645:4100:87b0:c092:8e1e:511b:3538] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:46 -!- _tin_ is now known as Guest71004 23:49 -!- _tin [~tyn@73.93.141.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] --- Log closed Sun Sep 23 00:00:17 2018