--- Log opened Tue Oct 09 00:00:32 2018 00:01 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:22 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:22 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:27 -!- TheoStorm [~dnaleor@88.208.87.3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:29 -!- Empact [~textual@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:33 -!- Empact [~textual@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:43 -!- Empact [~textual@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…] 02:23 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:37 -!- jeremyrubin [~jr@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:40 -!- Empact [~textual@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:44 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:49 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:56 -!- Empact [~textual@124x35x83x162.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:57 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@zz2014411797B6F89E82.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:58 -!- Deinogalerix21 [~Deinogale@cpc93832-hari18-2-0-cust876.20-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:01 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@zz2014411797B6F89E82.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:09 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:12 -!- Deinogalerix21 [~Deinogale@cpc93832-hari18-2-0-cust876.20-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.2] 03:14 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:16 < stevenroose> maaku: what's your take on the far future scenario where 99.9% of clients is upgraded to a forward-blocks software? It doesn't seem to be possible to phase out the compat chain as it's the only place where results from all shards are bundled. 03:17 < stevenroose> But then again, at some point all forward chain activity will be non-backwards-compatible, so only pegins and coinbases will be handled in the compat chain 03:17 < stevenroose> Or would f.e. CT activity also be made available in the compat chain? 03:17 < stevenroose> with zero-value outputs 03:19 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:26 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yasvbqvhiuipnofz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:05 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:08 < maaku> stevenroose: it's a necessary synchronization point. the compatibility chain never goes away 04:08 < maaku> but it only adds a small constant amount per block 04:09 < maaku> since the contents are deterministic 04:09 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:11 -!- reallll is now known as belcher 04:27 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39 -!- nephyrin [~neph@24.17.211.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:41 -!- nephyrin [~neph@24.17.211.60] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:53 -!- douglas_ [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:55 -!- NanashiFish [c2b20816@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.194.178.8.22] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:55 < NanashiFish> Hey all 04:55 < NanashiFish> I have some questions regarding BIP39 04:56 < NanashiFish> Would there be anybody willing to help 05:00 < NanashiFish> https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bip39/issues/89 05:00 < NanashiFish> Any input appreciated 05:01 < NanashiFish> But there seems to be some daring differences among different codbases that claim to implement the BIP39 standard 05:02 < NanashiFish> Which imho is not good? 05:14 < waxwing> interesting: https://medium.com/@hdevalence/merlin-flexible-composable-transcripts-for-zero-knowledge-proofs-28d9fda22d9a 05:17 < waxwing> i'm confused about something in the early part of the article: they make a generic construct for things like RFC6979, but as well as hashing in the transcript, the secret they also hash in an external randomness source. so it's not deterministic any more. 05:17 < waxwing> i don't really understand why they do that 05:24 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:32 -!- floam412 [~floam412@unaffiliated/floam412] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:46 -!- Emcy [~emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49 -!- floam412 [~floam412@unaffiliated/floam412] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:50 -!- nuncanada [~dude@187.65.68.135] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:01 -!- emcy [~emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:06 -!- valwal [~quassel@p4971173-ipngn1802marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:06 -!- emcy [~emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:11 -!- valwal [~quassel@p4971173-ipngn1802marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 06:22 -!- floam412 [~floam412@unaffiliated/floam412] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:24 -!- uiuc-slack1 [~uiuc-slac@li175-104.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:26 -!- uiuc-slack [~uiuc-slac@li175-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32 < jcorgan> in the referenced documentation of TranscriptRng: " In Merlin's setting, the only secrets available to the prover are the witness variables for the proof statement, so in the presence of a weak or failing RNG, the "backup" entropy is limited to the entropy of the witness variables." 06:32 -!- tombusby [~tombusby@gateway/tor-sasl/tombusby] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:35 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@62.112.9.237] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:35 < jcorgan> also: "Binding the output to the Transcript state ensures that two different proof contexts always generate different outputs. This prevents repeating blinding factors between proofs. Binding the output to the prover's witness data ensures that the PRF output has at least as much entropy as the witness does. Finally, binding the output to the output of an external RNG provides a backstop and avoids the downsides of fully deterministic genera 06:35 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:40 < waxwing> yeah; in that second text chunk, it's all clear, except the third (btw your text got cut off) ... i'm not sure what are considered the 'disadvantages of fully deterministic generation' 06:40 < waxwing> iirc Pornin gave some reasonable motivation for deterministic in RFC6979 06:41 < waxwing> but the first of the two you quoted may be an interesting aspect, not sure i got it yet. i guess there are cases where the witness doesn't have much entropy ... but then .. ? 06:42 < jcorgan> they claim that the fully deterministic form used in 6979 aids in "fault injection". i don't know what that is. 06:42 < jcorgan> i think the idea is "at least as much entropy as the witness variables, but the external PRF makes it unique for each proof" 06:42 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@62.112.9.237] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 06:43 < waxwing> oh no but, transcript + secret is always unique; it's like, imagine creating two versions of a schnorr sig; same message, same nonce, same privkey. you haven't; you've just created the same one twice :) 06:44 < waxwing> re: fault injection, i have a memory of people talking about evilness where someone builds a device say, with bad randomness, and silently leaks your privkey over time with it. 06:44 < waxwing> just a random memory though, not sure how/to what extent relevant here. interesting, though. 06:44 < jcorgan> i agree it's a little confusing 06:45 < jcorgan> that's actually a motivation *for* 6979 06:45 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yasvbqvhiuipnofz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:45 < waxwing> heh 06:55 < jcorgan> so after a little background reading i think what they are saying is that a fault injection attack as you describe in a secret key generator is more easily leaked through a deterministic nonce signature scheme 06:55 -!- douglas_ [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:58 < waxwing> Just from a testing point of view, not using deterministic makes me a bit sad 06:58 < waxwing> but if i follow what you're saying, one can at least see the reasoning 07:03 < jcorgan> this is why i don't design cryptographic systems for a living, there would be a lot more sadness in the world :) 07:09 -!- nuncanada [~dude@187.65.68.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:27 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:32 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:49 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@38.126.31.226] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:49 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@38.126.31.226] has quit [Changing host] 07:49 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:55 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:59 -!- setpill [~setpill@unaffiliated/setpill] has quit [Quit: o/] 08:00 -!- Empact [~textual@p4054237-ipngn23201marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:05 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@136.243.139.96] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:17 -!- maaku [~maaku@173.234.25.100] has left #bitcoin-wizards ["http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."] 08:20 < waxwing> Conner has published his 2P-ECDSA btw https://github.com/cfromknecht/tpec 08:32 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54 -!- emcy [~emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:54 -!- emcy [~emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:00 -!- Empact [~textual@p4054237-ipngn23201marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 09:03 -!- emcy [~emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:20 < Eliel_> maaku: couldnt the forward blocks be implemented such that the compatibility chain doesn't actually need to be stored because it can be generated on the fly from data stored in the new structure? 09:20 < Eliel_> or perhaps mostly doesn't need to be stored. 09:22 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2400:2410:a3a0:6100:44ec:4736:41ba:7d29] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:22 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:26 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:26 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2400:2410:a3a0:6100:44ec:4736:41ba:7d29] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:30 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:14 -!- str4d [~str4d@190.243.9.51.dyn.plus.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:08 -!- SopaXorzTaker [~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:16 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:34 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:54 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:07 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:08 -!- str4d [~str4d@190.243.9.51.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:13 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Quit: Newyorkadam] 12:21 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@080-250-075-064-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:25 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:37 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:40 -!- _Sam-- [greybits@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/sam--/x-37783179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:59 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:06 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:14 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@50-242-94-241-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:15 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:20 -!- state_bits [~state_bit@178.128.177.41] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:27 -!- _Sam-- [greybits@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/sam--/x-37783179] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:29 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:33 -!- dgpv [58631edb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.99.30.219] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:37 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2400:2410:a3a0:6100:44ec:4736:41ba:7d29] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:38 < dgpv> in bip174, 'master key fingerprint' is used, that is defined in bip32 as 32-bit value, that is susceptible to collisions. Do this mean that when someone plans to use PBST, collision check needs to be done at the time of multisig scheme setup, and participant have to publish their fingerprints to avoid collisions ? 13:42 -!- ynakasone [~ynakasone@2400:2410:a3a0:6100:44ec:4736:41ba:7d29] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:44 < waxwing> dgpv, well but you're still checking the key; that field (masterkeyfingerprint, path) is only telling you where to look to see if it matches. 13:44 < waxwing> i'd see the fingerprint as purely functioning as a hint or sanity check, no? 13:45 < dgpv> well, if you have a match, you might try to derive and check if the derived pubkey matches the pubkey stored in the keypair 13:46 < dgpv> but if they do not match, do you consider PBST invalid, or ignore that ? 13:46 < waxwing> well say it was on an output, and say it's a hardware device; in that case, you just wouldn't sign it, as the output destination is not recognized. 13:46 < dgpv> if another participant have the same fingerprint... 13:47 < dgpv> that would mean the multisig setup is not functional 13:48 < dgpv> someone have the key with the same fingerprint as yours 13:48 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Quit: Newyorkadam] 13:48 < dgpv> and you cannot sign PBST because you deeming it invalid 13:49 < waxwing> well, the key in the k-v pair is not the fingerprint, but the pubkey (in the bip32 derivation field), so that'd be unique 13:49 < dgpv> but it is the derived pubkey, right ? 13:50 < dgpv> so the match against xprivkey needs to be done with fingerprint 13:51 < waxwing> and for a multisig you'd have to add the redeemscript k-v pair too right. so if you had two bip32derivations with the same fingerprint ... i'm not sure but i think you'd just check each and see if either matched your key? 13:51 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@50-242-94-241-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 13:54 < dgpv> ... and the redeemScript (if provided) matches ... 13:54 < dgpv> so it may not be provided 13:55 < dgpv> maybe it may not be provided it participants are to reconstruct redeemscripts from derived pubkeys ? 13:56 < gmaxwell> stop 13:56 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:56 < dgpv> ah, looks like its more redemscript or witness, ok 13:56 < gmaxwell> What "32 bit fingerprint" are you talking about? 13:57 < waxwing> the bip32 one that's specified as part of the Bip32Derivation k-v pair in BIP174 13:57 < dgpv> PSBT_IN_BIP32_DERIVATION 13:57 < dgpv> Value: The master key fingerprint as defined by BIP 32 13:58 < waxwing> (OUT as well as IN) 14:00 < dgpv> BIP32: The first 32 bits of the identifier are called the key fingerprint. 14:00 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:02 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:03 < dgpv> so you extract pubkeys from redeemscript or witness 14:04 < dgpv> and check against them 14:05 < waxwing> well now i see you're thinking about inputs, sure, you can't sign without redeemscript/witnessscript 14:05 < dgpv> but you have to add a code to handle this corner case 14:06 < waxwing> well .. meh, i mean, if you get a fingerprint that matches, but the key doesn't, then that one doesn't work, but .. that's just one way the data could fail to match right. not sure it's a very special corner case in practice. 14:06 < waxwing> i mean, maybe. 14:07 < waxwing> sorry we may be quite offtopic for this channel though it's probably #bitcoin or perhaps somewhere else 14:07 < dgpv> ok 14:07 < waxwing> i think it's best seen as a hint. 14:13 < dgpv> yeah, I see. Thanks 14:13 < dgpv> sorry for offtopic. 14:20 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:26 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36 -!- dgpv [58631edb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.99.30.219] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:45 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@50-242-94-241-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:47 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@080-250-075-064-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:59 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Quit: Newyorkadam] 15:12 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:17 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:19 -!- rusty 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[~bildramer@p2003004D8D069E0058188FD7ED432455.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:13 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p57AD6F5E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:22 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:02 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13 -!- phwalkr [~phwalkr@192.32.61.94.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:23 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:28 < kanzure> .title https://github.com/dalek-cryptography/bulletproofs/ 17:28 < yoleaux> GitHub - dalek-cryptography/bulletproofs: A pure-Rust implementation of Bulletproofs using Ristretto. 17:29 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:30 -!- mn3monic [jsz@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:39 -!- wizkid057 [~wk@unaffiliated/wizkid057] has quit 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