--- Log opened Sat Nov 17 00:00:23 2018
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02:09 < nsh> which cardboard and/or glossy magazine things do i have to cut with tiny scissors to get these mining coupons?
02:11 < nsh> PoW discounts are an interesting way to layer incentives but I think it would tend towards 'stakeiness' and there would have to be some baseline PoW to keep things going
02:12 < nsh> so i don't really follow andytoshi/?'s musing there. i think it's just saying you can dilute the 'Dynamic' aspect somewhat without compromising near-term consensus
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02:14 < nsh> at some point however, presumably, the preferencing in consensus of particular keyholders over "anyone with hash and the mempool" would affect the security properties
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02:14 < nsh> or preferencing in a reward-distributed-signing-of-consensus-state
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02:21 < nsh> sipa, are we sure there's no way to converge upon a valid signature for a given message digest using the two free variables in the forgery trick above?
02:24 < nsh> (would imply an ECDSA i suppose, but maybe if you have access to a large number of signatures to begin tweaking from you can do some weird parallel stuff)
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05:36 < andytoshi> RubenSomsen: i don't remember what i was thinking with that sidechains.pdf quote
05:36 < andytoshi> nsh: my point with the pos.pdf quote was simply that my DMMS definition wasn't good enough
05:38 < andytoshi> RubenSomsen: it sounds like i was trying to come up with some sort of verifiable chaum bank or something .. but you're right that nobody can verify a lack of multiple histories, and what's written seems to suggest that anyone can add blocks so there _would_ be multiple histories
05:39 < andytoshi> nsh: any valid signature can be translated into the "forged" form and back. it is impossible to get two that have any useful relation to each other without knowing the secret key
05:39 < andytoshi> and if an honest signer is using random nonces, they won't be producing anything with useful relations to each other
05:39 < andytoshi> and if they're not, you can extract their secret key wit lattice methods
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06:36 < RubenSomsen> andytoshi: OK I see, thanks. Yeah, it seems to DMMS is unavoidable
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 17 07:35:01 2018
--- Log opened Sat Nov 17 07:35:01 2018
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10:37 < dgenr8> gmaxwell: an echo-chamber participant shared it with me. my response was to ask him if he would abandon csw as satoshi if it were fraudulent. so maybe one less of those in the world now.
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--- Log closed Sun Nov 18 00:00:24 2018