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o/] 08:47 -!- MarcoFalke [~none@198.12.116.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48 -!- MarcoFalke [~none@198.12.116.246] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:58 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:03 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@96-82-67-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:03 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@96-82-67-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:04 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@96-82-67-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:14 -!- fkinglag [~fkinglag@unaffiliated/fkinglag] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14 -!- fkinglag [~fkinglag@unaffiliated/fkinglag] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:29 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:01 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-135-248.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:04 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-135-248.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:09 -!- jungly [~quassel@host97-200-static.8-79-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@96-82-67-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 10:24 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@96-82-67-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:26 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:42 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:43 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:a876:2197:f7f1:7a48:303a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43 -!- hikvontik [~hikvontik@82.165.116.151] has quit [Quit: Quit] 10:43 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:a876:dcdc:efad:583c:fc29] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:44 -!- hikvontik [~hikvontik@82.165.116.151] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:47 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:48 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:48 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:a876:dcdc:efad:583c:fc29] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:08 < Eliel> Does it actually make any sense to have PoW on a chain with large enough blocks that basically only larger companies will ever run full nodes? 11:09 < Eliel> Wouldn't identity based consensus algorithms be more effective with those constraints? 11:10 < Eliel> Or to put this another way, what benefits would PoW provide for a system that is unable avoid regulatory capture? 11:15 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:24 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:25 < gmaxwell> I can't think of any, if the pow isn't competative it won't be large, and so it won't actually amass enough work to make reorg expensive. 11:30 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46 -!- Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW 11:55 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@50-242-94-241-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:58 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:00 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@50-242-94-241-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:17 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@78-22-87-51.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:00 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 13:05 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:05 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-takufgooisaddttq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:06 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:12 -!- son0p_ [~son0p@181.136.99.9] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:12 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:17 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:29 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:33 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:34 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:38 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@78-22-87-51.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40 < Eliel> gmaxwell: why would you assume PoW is not competitive? That wasn't part of the scenario I was thinking of. 13:49 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:09 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:17 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@78-22-87-51.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:17 -!- e4xit [~e4xit@cpc123762-trow7-2-0-cust7.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:28 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@78-22-87-51.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@50-242-94-241-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:08 -!- son0p_ [~son0p@181.136.99.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 15:26 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@cpc139350-aztw33-2-0-cust310.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:52 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:52 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:05 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 16:32 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@96-82-67-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46 < bsm117532> Eliel: the alternative scenario you present (identity based consensus) is "costless" generation of coins. The only advantage PoW has in that situation is that PoW is costly, forcing the miners to sell some of their coins, and achieving a larger distribution of coins than an identity based consensus would (which economically incentivizes consensus nodes to hoard coins they are allocated). 16:47 < bsm117532> But I'd argue you don't want PoW in such a case anyway. A federation-based chain doesn't need a coin in the first place. 16:47 < gmaxwell> Eliel: I think thats kind of implicit in your thinking, if mining is limited to just a few parties than clearly there won't be a lot of POW behind it. .... if not, for some reason, then at least the POW makes the history costly to forge. 16:47 < bsm117532> and is very much not censorship resistant. 16:49 * gmaxwell agrees with bsm117532 16:50 < gmaxwell> I'd generally say that POW is a terrible way to make a centeralized system. If you're already accepting control from some consortium it's better to just have them sign the results.. that has very strong security (subject to the limit that you're trusting the consortium in the first place). 16:53 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:55 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@96-82-67-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:08 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hatamqfirnarlokv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:25 -!- likewhoa [~likewhoa@s2.maserver.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:26 < likewhoa> \o 17:27 -!- knuteis[m] [knuteismat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qpqwqcpdqtabckug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27 -!- Jeremy_Rand_Talo [jeremyra1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cxpzvsvgashgkzmq] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27 -!- tomtau[m] [tomtaumatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jqkegsfizwrjrysh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27 -!- azdrianz[m] [azdrianzma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eracxgckwbitfdqq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27 -!- hsngrmpf[m] [hsngrmpfma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-scvhegucehkagcza] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27 -!- charuto [charutocaf@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bogpjkmyljocaxfy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27 -!- kewde[m] [kewdematri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bibcagbijlgdajea] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27 -!- TheFuzzStone[m] [thefuzzsto@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fmqzyhplnzzogdcv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28 -!- devdig[m] [devdigmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bbvmlrmnoyaambqm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28 -!- catcow [wavepruner@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zzktocxignequpjs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30 -!- koshii [~mike@c-68-38-246-130.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33 -!- koshii [~mike@c-68-38-246-130.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:36 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:38 -!- azdrianz[m] [azdrianzma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-qaxixokoieqhfqxi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:47 < Eliel> gmaxwell: After letting this stew for a while, I don't think even competitive PoW would actually do much for such a system. It's probably easier to just convince all participants to fork than to redo the mining. 17:49 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@96-82-67-198-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 17:52 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:12 -!- Jeremy_Rand_Talo [jeremyra1@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vlgfflmnftbkhubp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- charuto [charutocaf@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-prrlkzvrlgpwvqhr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- TheFuzzStone[m] [thefuzzsto@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cofeusuklpvcrfdg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- kewde[m] [kewdematri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-jjnaxpbnsopsbdoe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- devdig[m] [devdigmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-suyieyaffrfhycyy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- catcow [wavepruner@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-khnmknyxgtpsgdde] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- tomtau[m] [tomtaumatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xgrlfltselddkuzh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- knuteis[m] [knuteismat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xwjhdihqzurxzafd] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:12 -!- hsngrmpf[m] [hsngrmpfma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dvbonxuikrqjzxrt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:34 -!- IGHOR [~quassel@93.178.216.72] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org ? ??????????? ?????????. ????-??.] 18:36 -!- IGHOR [~quassel@93.178.216.72] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:38 -!- vtnerd_ [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:39 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:54 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:13 -!- moa [~kiwigb@180.149.231.213] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:15 -!- moa [~kiwigb@180.149.231.213] has quit [Changing host] 19:15 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:21 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 19:42 -!- shesek [~shesek@93-38-48-98.ip69.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:42 -!- shesek [~shesek@93-38-48-98.ip69.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Changing host] 19:42 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:46 -!- TheoStorm [~TheoStorm@host-g4sn8hj.cbn1.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hatamqfirnarlokv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:49 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 19:59 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:59 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-65-188.nc.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:59 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-78-35-65-188.nc.de] has quit [Changing host] 19:59 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:18 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:29 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@50-242-94-241-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@50-242-94-241-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:31 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:34 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@50-242-94-241-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:35 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:26 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:30 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:25 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:41 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-76-102-227-220.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 22:46 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:a876:f597:2b7f:6d40:d17f] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:50 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:a876:f597:2b7f:6d40:d17f] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:54 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4000:a876:f13e:81ee:f90c:8b33] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:59 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@unaffiliated/dizzle] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:14 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:18 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] --- Log closed Tue Mar 19 00:00:19 2019