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Connection reset by peer] 09:02 -!- IGHOR [~quassel@93.178.216.72] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:04 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:21 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:21 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:25 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:42 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@82-132-232-195.dab.02.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:44 -!- enemabandit [~enemaband@185.227.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:44 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:48 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:49 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:59 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:03 -!- wildermind [uid300433@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwnybddfjhvrluhv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:05 -!- dburk [473c2d39@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.60.45.57] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:06 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:10 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:42 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:45 -!- e4xit [~e4xit@cpc123762-trow7-2-0-cust7.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:46 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:51 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:00 -!- vexed[vexed] [~vexedvexe@84.39.117.57] has quit [] 11:04 -!- benj [~benj@185.204.1.185] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:04 -!- benj is now known as Guest97846 11:06 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:09 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:13 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:15 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:16 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has quit [Quit: Sleep mode] 11:27 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:31 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:39 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:45 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has quit [Quit: Sleep mode] 11:53 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:57 < jeremyrubin> gmaxwell: hey I have an optimization for COSHV you might like 11:57 < jeremyrubin> Instead of pushing the 32 bytes 11:58 < jeremyrubin> We just parse the script for an OP_COSHV *before* executing it 11:58 -!- sipa [~pw@gateway/tor-sasl/sipa1024] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:58 < jeremyrubin> then we template replace it with the Hash of the outputs 11:59 < jeremyrubin> then we look it up in the tapscript tree 11:59 < jeremyrubin> This saves us 33 bytes per COSHV 12:04 < jeremyrubin> in fact this is a great general trick 12:05 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:06 < aj> if i'm reading right, that's no longer a soft-fork on tapscript; doesn't work if you want to have IF ELSE ENDIF alternatives for the outputs either, i think. could work for MAST alternatives though? 12:07 < jeremyrubin> I think I have a best of all worlds example of how to do it 12:08 < jeremyrubin> But it is no longer a soft fork, which makes the case for inclusion as a bundle with taproot (or generally thinking about how we can metaprogram taproot scripts compatibly) 12:09 < jeremyrubin> My idea is that we put it in the lookup hash if it is the first opcode 12:10 < jeremyrubin> That way if you want to have if/else branches you can (not sure why you wouldn't tapscript compile them to be unconditional) 12:13 -!- wildermind [uid300433@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwnybddfjhvrluhv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:13 < gmaxwell> aj: you can see what he's asking for is kind of like the script&&key construct in g'root. 12:13 < jeremyrubin> But it's IMO definitely worth doing this if not too gross -- in the unoptimized case where you're doing, say, 1024 payments, you end up saving 33KB of block space 12:14 < jeremyrubin> is g'root a different thing than graftroot? 12:14 < gmaxwell> Yes. 12:16 < jeremyrubin> lol at the naming 12:16 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:18 < jeremyrubin> I'm not sure I follow the equivalence 12:19 < gmaxwell> it's a parallel and requirement and the hash is constructed from data that is otherwise available. 12:19 < jeremyrubin> Ah I see. 12:20 < jeremyrubin> What do you think about doing this as a non-softfork to taproot? 12:25 < gmaxwell> I think it should probably be done for the next version that supports grafts. I don't think delaying taproot further makes sense when we already know that there are additional incompatible things that we want to do. 12:28 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29 -!- MarcoFalke [~none@198.12.116.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:30 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@38.126.31.226] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:30 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@38.126.31.226] has quit [Changing host] 12:30 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:43 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:47 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:06 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:10 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:14 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:18 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@38.126.31.226] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:19 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@38.126.31.226] has quit [Changing host] 13:19 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:26 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:32 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:32 -!- Krellan [~Krellan@2601:640:4100:ac00:300d:3b2e:2ceb:a3ac] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:35 < jeremyrubin> gmaxwell: how about this change, we make the tapscript evaluate *before* we look it up in the merkle tree. We then add an opcode which adds the OutputsHash to the TapLeaf Hash Digest 13:36 < sipa> jeremyrubin: can you use an annex? 13:36 < gmaxwell> sipa: there is no signature. 13:36 < sipa> ah. 13:36 < gmaxwell> it needs to be commited to by the scriptpubkey. 13:36 < sipa> oh i see 13:37 < gmaxwell> which inherently makes it a change to how the hash is constructed. 13:37 < sipa> yeah that's pretty invasive 13:37 < jeremyrubin> sipa: just to be clear, this is only for the optimization not the general BIP 13:38 < jeremyrubin> it saves 33 bytes/output 13:38 < jeremyrubin> (in case you didn't catch the scrollback 13:38 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:39 < aj> it's not upgradable, you can't introduce new opcodes with this behaviour later in a script-only soft-fork, because old nodes wouldn't be able to calculate S to verify Q=P+H(P,S)G 13:40 < gmaxwell> it's a good optimization, but not a kind that any forward compatiblity (except the 'replace the hash function') could really handle. 13:43 < jeremyrubin> I think the evaluate the script first version and append to hash is more invasive but worse abstractioin than the templated version 13:44 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:44 < jeremyrubin> *better abstraction 13:44 < jeremyrubin> The templated version is messy because you have to execute the script twice in effect 13:45 < jeremyrubin> But the 'allow scripts to commit to a hash tag' version seems like a nice semantic. The downside is that script evaluation is probably more expensive than hash tree verification 13:45 < sipa> yes 13:46 < jeremyrubin> sipa: what about just adding a leaf version that adds the output hash? 13:47 < jeremyrubin> That's probably the minimally invasive change that gets the benefit now 13:47 < jeremyrubin> afk till later! 13:48 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:59 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:00 -!- Guest97846 [~benj@185.204.1.185] has quit [] 14:17 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:17 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:32 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:43 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:43 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:44 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has quit [Client Quit] 14:47 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:48 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:50 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:392f:7e06:2f29:86cc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-73-92-181-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 14:56 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:796c:7a69:fc3e:3610] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:58 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hpfijvtdfqjltynh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:06 -!- Guyver2 [AdiIRC@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:35 -!- Anduck_ is now known as Anduck 15:35 -!- justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser 15:37 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:38 -!- michaelfolkson [~textual@85.211.233.88] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40 -!- wm4 [~wm4@184.75.223.195] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:44 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-67-170-233-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:47 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:48 -!- koshii [~mike@c-68-38-246-130.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:51 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:55 -!- koshii [~mike@c-68-38-246-130.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:01 < gmaxwell> More slezy behavior by Zcash employees: https://github.com/zcash/zips/pull/220#issuecomment-495005043 16:01 < gmaxwell> sleazy* 16:02 -!- siom [~siom@165.84.231.19] has quit [Ping 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joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:14 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:20 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:24 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:32 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:45 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-67-170-233-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 19:09 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:10 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-85-197-36-31.nc.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:10 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-85-197-36-31.nc.de] has quit [Changing host] 19:10 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:11 < sarang> I will be pleasantly surprised if you get a response from a company employee gmaxwell :( 19:11 < sarang> That entire shenanigan with the transcript still makes me extremely upset 19:14 -!- ccdle12_ [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:29 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-73-92-181-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:41 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:46 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:51 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:796c:7a69:fc3e:3610] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:56 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:796c:7a69:fc3e:3610] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:00 -!- coolacid1 [~coolacid@185.204.1.185] has quit [] 20:09 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:12 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:15 -!- davterra [~tralfaz@178.128.106.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:18 -!- EricFisher [~EricFishe@84.39.117.57] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:20 -!- davterra [~tralfaz@178.128.106.205] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:20 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:31 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-73-92-181-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pinheadmz] 20:35 -!- ccdle12 [~ccdle12@1-64-37-052.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:46 -!- pinheadmz [~matthewzi@c-73-92-181-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:03 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:33 < gmaxwell> jeremyrubin: fwiw, those ~32 bytes you were talking about saving are only lost in terms of weight, they could be easily saved on disk and on p2p. 21:34 < gmaxwell> jeremyrubin: just requires the disk/p2p serialization to know how to recover them. 21:39 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:796c:7a69:fc3e:3610] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:42 -!- fletom [~fletom@104.163.186.44] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43 -!- fletom [~fletom@104.163.186.44] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:44 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:796c:7a69:fc3e:3610] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:44 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 21:52 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:05 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:6caa:bc29:f281:dd92] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:09 -!- tromp [~tromp@2a02:a210:1585:3200:6caa:bc29:f281:dd92] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:51 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52 -!- 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