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14:08 < yanmaani> Bitcoin could trivially get safe 0-confirm transactions with this ONE WEIRD TRICK:
14:08 < yanmaani> If two duplicate transactions from the same UTXO are included in the same block, 50% of the UTXO is burned, and 50% of it goes to the miner.
14:08 < yanmaani> Thoughts?
14:08 < belcher_> a block which spent a UTXO twice would already be invalid
14:09 < belcher_> also that sounds like it doesnt prevent finney attacks, because the miner/attacker will just only include his tx and not the other one
14:09 < yanmaani> Yeah, but if both are in the mempool at the same time
14:10 < yanmaani> Yeah, you might have to put a delay of one or two blocks. Then your settlement finality would be "I either have $20, or someone just lit $20 on fire".
14:10 < yanmaani> Wouldn't that work?
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14:14 < sanket1729> I guess this is similar to slashing in PoS systems.
14:15 < sipa> it also means you break any scheme with multiple presigned unbroadcast transactions
14:15 < yanmaani> sanket1729: Sort of, except this is just user to user, and miners have an incentive to find it out
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14:20 < belcher_> theres no such thing as the mempool
14:20 < belcher_> "the" mempool*
14:20 < sipa> or the ability to prove anything about it
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14:22 < sanket1729> I think miners can trivally cheat this system. They bug something with 0 conf, and get 50% back?
14:22 < belcher_> or they could do a finney attack and get 100% back
14:22 < yanmaani> sanket1729: If they control 100% of the hashrate
14:23 < yanmaani> belcher_: Wouldn't putting a lock of a few blocks on it solve it?
14:23 < yanmaani> "The transaction is credited to your UTXO after six blocks, if it hasn't been burned by then. Opt in to this scheme by sending this specific type of transaction, and then sites offering zero-conf know to take you seriously"
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14:36 < sanket1729> yanmaani, I think on expectation they directly save hash_rate*0.5 %. I am not talking about the attack where miner includes only 1 tx, but where miner deliberately includes a double spend tx getting half the value.
14:42 < yanmaani> Yeah, I can imagine that being a deal breaker in some cases
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