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07:42 < yanmaani> So, Ethereum has a really awful smart contracts language.
07:42 < yanmaani> Did anyone come up with a cryptocurrency that uses some "normal" FORTH-like language, but still does Turing-complete contracts?
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08:18 < michaelfolkson> yanmaani: If you mean more expressive than Script but still without infinite loops then see https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/simplicity/ Not on Bitcoin yet but on a test branch of Elements https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/simplicity/
08:19 < yanmaani> michaelfolkson: No, with infinite loops, so you can make smart contracts etc, just not in Solidity specifically.
08:19 < yanmaani> something formally verified or other
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08:23 < michaelfolkson> See second half of this for state of play in 2018 https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/blockchain-protocol-analysis-security-engineering/2018/2018-01-24-christopher-allen-smart-signatures/
08:26 < michaelfolkson> Having all nodes on the network trying to validate infinite loops sounds bonkers to me. You need something like Ethereum's gas before you even start trying to tackle that
08:27 < yanmaani> yeah, I mean you would do something like ethereum's gas system. You'd just make it better, so it's easier to write good contracts
08:30 < michaelfolkson> Or you write expressive contracts that don't need infinite loops
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08:31 < yanmaani> Can those do everything? Could you do the whole DeFi casino with it?
08:35 < michaelfolkson> The entire DeFi casino is hard if you want to build on top of a decentralized network not because you don't have infinite loops
08:37 < michaelfolkson> It is easier to build on a centralized network without liquidity restrictions of second layers and just slap decentralized ("De") on it
08:37 < yanmaani> What do you mean? Ethereum seems to be doing fine at providing that service, such that it is.
08:38 < michaelfolkson> It is putting all the strain on one layer at the cost of decentralization
08:38 < michaelfolkson> (and high fees)
08:39 < yanmaani> yeah that's true, but assuming you were fine with that - is there a good Turing-complete replacement for Solidity?
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08:41 < michaelfolkson> Not as far as I know as a slot in replacement for Solidity. Other than those listed in https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/blockchain-protocol-analysis-security-engineering/2018/2018-01-24-christopher-allen-smart-signatures/
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18:53 < kanzure> tromp: that mailing list is oddly uninformed.
18:53 < kanzure> in bizarre ways
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20:26 < sanket1729_> yanmaani, michaelfolkson: turning completeness should not be necessary for any blockchain applications. What we really want to show is possetion of witness that satisfies, which is different from executing the script.
20:26 < sanket1729_> re, infinite loops. As the execution of the contract, you should know how many loops it can take and run it for that many loops
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--- Log closed Mon Mar 01 00:00:43 2021