--- Log opened Sun Nov 07 00:00:24 2021
--- Day changed Sun Nov 07 2021
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05:31 < roconnor> yanmaani: you telling me that my rules are Bitcoin Core *is* the result of me asking aorund for rules.
05:31 < roconnor> Next you might even tell me where to get this "Bitcoin Core" and maybe even give me a PGP fingerprint.
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06:18 < yanmaani> roconnor: this isn't a fair comparison
06:25 < roconnor> I agree that having to initially socially find the chain tip is a somewhat bigger weakness than initially finding Bitcoin Core signer's GPG fingerprints.  I just don't think the difference is that great.
06:28 < yanmaani> Not initially, constantly.
06:28 < yanmaani> If you ever turn off your node, too.
06:29 < yanmaani> and eclipse attacks are deadly
06:29 < yanmaani> because they fork you off
06:30 < roconnor> My understanding is that with these PoS systems (not that I'm advocating for them in general; they have lots of issues, but just regarding this particular point), you need to be online once every few months or so; not so dissimilar to the lightning requirements.
06:33 < yanmaani> it depends, it's all deliberately obfuscated. But the thing is, if you're willing to accede to PoS' weaker threat model, you don't even need the blockchain.
06:33 < yanmaani> You can just have the mempool.
06:36 < roconnor> That isn't my understanding.  WRT to some version of Cardano, my understanding is that as long as you remain online with sufficent frequency, you will remain in sync with everyone else who also remains online with that sufficent frequency.  Which is better than just a mempool.
06:37 < roconnor> But I could be wrong here, since I haven't studied the issue deeply.
06:46 < yanmaani> it's a difference of degree, sure, but it's the same principle
07:17 < roconnor> With Bitcoin, if I were offline for 5 years, I'll miss a bunch of soft-forks.  While I would be able to sync to the correct chain I still wouldn't be running the correct rule set without an upgrade.
07:18 < roconnor> Within the next 100 years, Bitcoin will need a hardfork, so people will need to coordinate that as well.
07:18 < roconnor> Again it is a difference of degree, but I don't think it is reasonable to say that, because of the above reasons, there is no point in Bitcoin and you might as well just use a mempool.
07:25 < _aj_> roconnor: "if i were offline for 5 years, i could sync the tip but might be missing some rules due to soft forks" is different to "with PoS if i'm offline for >x months, an eclipse attack might mean i cannot sync to the correct tip, even if there have been no rule changes" ; otoh most non-bitcoin chains have regular hardforks so old code can't sync and new code can have recent checkpoints anyway?
07:33 < roconnor> why is it different?
07:35 < roconnor> because a similar eclipse attack in Bitcoin would (hopefully) be incredibly expensive?
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 08 00:00:26 2021