--- Log opened Thu Dec 09 00:00:56 2021
00:43 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
00:57 -!- b10c [uid500648@id-500648.ilkley.irccloud.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:38 -!- ghost43 [~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:38 -!- ghost43_ [~ghost43@gateway/tor-sasl/ghost43] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
01:52 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
01:53 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:04 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-121.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:05 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-153.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:37 -!- ZeroMaster [~webirc@95-42-105-42.ip.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:38 -!- ZeroMaster [~webirc@95-42-105-42.ip.btc-net.bg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
02:57 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@71pc74.sshunet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
03:38 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
04:31 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
04:47 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
05:53 < andytoshi> jeremyrubin: if you were willing to do the gruntwork of proposing a new set of arithmetic opcodes (and CAT ;)) i think it would get very strong support
05:53 < andytoshi> you could steal the implementations from elements
05:53 < andytoshi> this has been on my todo list for a while but it hasn't bubbled up to the top yet :(
05:58 -!- flag [~flag@net-93-144-65-62.cust.vodafonedsl.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:00 -!- nickler [~nickler@static.219.205.69.159.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
06:01 -!- nickler [~nickler@static.219.205.69.159.clients.your-server.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
06:30 < jeremyrubin> andytoshi am i wrong for thinking that should be done as a new tapscript version? it seems weird to have both broken numeric ops and 64 bit 
06:38 < jeremyrubin> when i say broken i mean that I think we want most math ops to be a Closure
06:41 < sipa> can't you just propose separate non-broken arithmetic opcodes?
06:42 < sipa> it may be useful to not waste the old ones though; then you'd need a new leaf version
06:45 < jeremyrubin> sipa: see above, if the presence of one of the opcode (e.g. OP_UPGRADEMATH) it breaks roconnor's kliesi star analysis since cat ScriptA ScriptB changes sematnics of ScriptB if ScriptA has UPDADEMATH
06:45 < jeremyrubin> And if we wanted to add the math opcodes generally I don't think we have enough
06:45 < jeremyrubin> free opcodes
06:47 < jeremyrubin> well I guess we do *have* enough, idk if people would be happy bulk assigning to copies of math
06:47 < jeremyrubin> but I guess it beats using up a whole leaf version?
07:01 < roconnor> jeremyrubin: I'm not that worried aobut having the existance of new opcodes reassign the semantics of existing math operators, especially if there is a no-op version that could go at the header of the script.
07:01 < roconnor> It just means there is a side condition to the semantic analysis.  Which isn't great, but isn't the worst.
07:03 < roconnor> But that said, it is probably better to just make new opcodes for everything.
07:03 < roconnor> I'm not certain, but probably.
08:03 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@coq/roconnor] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
09:25 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:29 -!- gene [~gene@gateway/tor-sasl/gene] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
09:33 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
09:35 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:12 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
10:50 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
10:56 -!- gene [~gene@gateway/tor-sasl/gene] has quit [Quit: gene]
10:57 -!- gene [~gene@gateway/tor-sasl/gene] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:12 -!- yanmaani [~yanmaani@gateway/tor-sasl/yanmaani] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:12 -!- yanmaani [~yanmaani@gateway/tor-sasl/yanmaani] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:50 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@coq/roconnor] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:52 < roconnor> andytoshi: https://github.com/roconnor-blockstream/SSS32/tree/recover-slide  
11:53 < roconnor> I've hacked together an example recover slide ruler.
11:53 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
11:53 < roconnor> I'm 75% certain the double outer ring is necessary, even beyond the fact that I am using characters from different character sets.
11:55 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
11:59 < roconnor> I tried a couple of values and it seems to work.
11:59 < roconnor> but obviously the layout need a little bit of work.
12:07 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
12:25 < andytoshi> my personal preference would be to just eat up half a dozen opcodes in the current leaf version to add new math opcodes alongside the existing ones. but i don't have a strong preference
12:36 < roconnor> I could move the outer ring by a half turn to bring it out of alignment of the inner ring ... but I think that might end up making things worse.
12:38 < roconnor> it would even let us interleave the inner and outer ring, but that would make the handle pretty problematic.
12:44 -!- gene [~gene@gateway/tor-sasl/gene] has quit [Quit: gene]
12:47 -!- robertspigler [~robertspi@2001:470:69fc:105::2d53] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:47 -!- rottenwheel [~rottenwhe@user/rottenwheel] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:48 -!- cdecker[m] [~cdeckerma@2001:470:69fc:105::2e8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:48 -!- ademan[m] [~ademanmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:16db] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:49 -!- RCasatta[m] [~rcasattam@2001:470:69fc:105::c85] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:49 -!- kakolainen[m] [~kakolaine@2001:470:69fc:105::34f9] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:54 < roconnor> "
12:54 < roconnor> From the United States Copyright Office’s Circular 33 (a 2011 version) regarding, Computing and Measuring Devices:
12:54 < roconnor> “Devices and similar articles designed for computing and measuring cannot be copyrighted. Common examples of uncopyrightable computing and measuring works include slide rulers, wheel dials, and perpetual calendar designs.
12:55 -!- Common [~Common@096-033-221-075.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Changing host]
12:55 -!- Common [~Common@user/common] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
12:55 < roconnor> “Ideas, methods, systems, mathematical principles, formulas, and equations are not copyrightable, and the same is true of devices based on them. Printed material on a device—for example, lines, numbers, symbols, and calibrations, as well as their arrangement—is likewise not copyrightable, because such material is necessarily dictated by an uncopyrightable idea, principle, formula, or standard of measurement.”
12:56 < roconnor> So the printouts are not subject to copyright, but I guess the postscript program is?
12:57 < andytoshi> roconnor: lol fascinating!
12:57 < andytoshi> i expect the postscript program, being code, is copyrighted yes
12:57 < andytoshi> i wonder what the patent(ability) story is
12:59 < roconnor> TBH the plain reading of that is that code, which is clearly designed for computing, is not subject to copyright, but so much for consistency.
13:01 -!- plankster_ [~plankster@user/plankers] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:02 -!- plankster [~plankster@user/plankers] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:02 < andytoshi> i think you could argue that a program emulator or a calculator program would count as "designed for computing"
13:02 < andytoshi> it would be a pretty funny court caase
13:02 < andytoshi> i'm not sure you could argue that all code is "designed for computing"
13:03 < roconnor> what?
13:03 < andytoshi> but it's hard to articulate why without use-mention errors or otherwise being confusing
13:03 < roconnor> programs are not always designed for computing?
13:03 < andytoshi> the program is the object of the computing, not the subject
13:03 < andytoshi> is what i'm trying to say. i think
13:04 < roconnor> a recipe of specific instructions to be executed systematically may not be designed for computing?
13:04 < roconnor> anyhow.
13:05 < andytoshi> yeah, my claim is that the recipe doesn't count; the tools you use to execute the recipe does
13:05 < roconnor> but the program is the recipe.
13:05 < andytoshi> anyhow -- i am revewing all your new commits to master and will check out your recover-slide branch once i'm done
13:05 < andytoshi> roconnor: oops, negate both clauses of what i said
13:05 < andytoshi> the recipe *is* copyrightable, the tools are *not*
13:06 < andytoshi> because the tools' purpose is to compute; the recipe's purpose is to accomplish something else
13:06 < roconnor> okay but recipes are specifically also no copyrightable.
13:06 < andytoshi> lol! touche
13:07 < andytoshi> i think you have a solid argument, and maybe if rms had tried this in the 70s we'd be in a different world todayp
13:07 < roconnor> ya, once a court makes a mistake, there is no going back.
13:07 < andytoshi> pretty much :/
13:09 < andytoshi> a very similar legal question: can we use adobe's fancy copyrighted fonts in this? https://helpx.adobe.com/fonts/using/font-licensing.html#act-own says that if we have a creative cloud license (and kiara does) then we can redistribute their fonts if they are "properly embedded font data" in e.g. a PDF
13:09 < roconnor> Anyhow, the instructions on how to use the volvelles are subject to copyright I guess.
13:09 < andytoshi> roconnor: yeah, i think it's best to assume so, and provide an explicit MIT (or CC-BY, or whatever) license as we are doing
13:09 -!- Common [~Common@user/common] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:11 < andytoshi> i think their "for example, PDF" language definitely covers postscript if you think of .ps as an opaque document interchange format
13:11 < andytoshi> but that it probably is not intended to cover human-editable postscript
13:11 < andytoshi> and i further think that their font lawyers have not ever considered this :P
13:12 < roconnor> my reading is it is fine as long as no one ever edits the postscript.
13:13 < roconnor> However, I'd like users to have the ability to edit the postscript.
13:13 -!- Common [~Common@096-033-221-075.res.spectrum.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:14 < andytoshi> agreed, and the text of the document will even say "you can/should edit the postscript"
13:14 -!- Common [~Common@096-033-221-075.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Changing host]
13:14 -!- Common [~Common@user/common] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:15 < andytoshi> i'll try to dig into this, because kiara has an "adobe jenson pro" font she wants to use for this, which looks really cool
13:16 < roconnor> I moderately strongly prefer to stick to Courier, Times-Roman, Helvetica and Symbol.
13:16 < andytoshi> circling back -- she has also seggested we title the document "The Shamir Secret Sharing Codex" which i think is a pretty cool name. and we could name the bch code codex32 then
13:16 < roconnor> and, our drafting-gothic font we made.
13:16 < andytoshi> roconnor: ok. maybe we will modify the copy locally that we distribute in the blockstream store, to change the font
13:16 < roconnor> that's fine.
13:16 < andytoshi> and that, i think, is unambiguously ok from adobe's POV
13:17 < roconnor> I'll buy the astrolabe version.
13:21 < sipa> does it come with a backdoor?
13:22 < andytoshi> this ` ((c)) search {show pop /copyright glyphshow} if show` trick is super cool btw roconnor .. did you get that from the bluebook or something?
13:22 < roconnor> sipa: in order to take it apart?
13:22 < andytoshi> i guess it only works to replace a single ((c))
13:23 < roconnor> andytoshi: nope; I was just browsing the list of operations.
13:23 < andytoshi> it's pretty slick
13:23 < roconnor> that and I wanted to play with glyphshow.
13:25 < roconnor> I want to replace our codes with an array of glyphs instead of an array of characters;  Then underlineshow gets replaced with something that calls glyphshow.
13:25 < roconnor> our underlineshow can do some smart font picking, add the underlines for the 6 and 9 glyphs.
13:26 < roconnor> Maybe do some centering.
13:28 < andytoshi> ah yeah, that would be awesome
13:28 < andytoshi> currently we mix a lot of display logic into places it doesn't belong, often repetitively
13:29 < roconnor> ya it is a big mess, but that's okay.  We are still settling on exactly what we are designing.
13:30 < roconnor> Getting better at postscript programming.
13:31 < roconnor> andytoshi: How much worse was the slide ruler without the handle?
13:32 < andytoshi> yep, me too :) it is actually not a half-bad language. i will probably use embedded postscript a lot in the future in latex docs when i need to do weird stuff
13:32 < andytoshi> roconnor: it wasn't too much worse, but i think the handle makes it intuitive in a way that the non-handle one wasn't
13:32 < andytoshi> roconnor: before you typed that i was about to suggest changing the handle for the recover share so that the window only reveals the share index
13:32 < andytoshi> and not the x below it
13:33 < roconnor> If only that worked.
13:33 -!- robertspigler [~robertspi@2001:470:69fc:105::2d53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:33 < andytoshi> oh! yeah, i see now
13:33 < andytoshi> it's not always the x, it's "whatever 3 maps to". gross
13:34 < roconnor> I could interleave the two outer rings, which would be nice, but it would get so crammed there wouldn't be room for a handle.
13:34 < roconnor> Which would be fine if these were sliding metal rings...
13:34 < andytoshi> ah yeah i see
13:34 < andytoshi> i think that'd be too cramed. would be better to have the handle
13:35 -!- rottenwheel [~rottenwhe@user/rottenwheel] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:36 < roconnor> I guess we could cut out a flap on the top disc, somewhere in the interior, for you to grab.
13:36 < roconnor> probably not so great though.
13:38 < andytoshi> yeah, i think that'd be ok with cardstock but would rip easily with normal paper
13:39 < roconnor> maybe interleaving the rings is too confusing anyways.
13:40 < andytoshi> yeah i suspect so
13:41 < andytoshi> i wonder if you can swap the symbols on the outer ring with the indices on the inner ring
13:41 < andytoshi> then reverse all the arrows
13:41 < andytoshi> then the handle would just have no symbol below it
13:42 < andytoshi> wait maybe i am still confused. goodness these are hard to visualize..
13:48 -!- cdecker[m] [~cdeckerma@2001:470:69fc:105::2e8e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
13:49 < andytoshi> yeah, ok, i don't see any good alternatives to what you've done
13:54 < andytoshi> actually, ok, i might have something, which involves swapping the symbols and letters on the bottom sheet and extending top sheet to then cover the symbols. but let me work through it..
13:55 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:06 < roconnor> that does sound promising.
14:08 < andytoshi> https://github.com/apoelstra/SSS32/tree/f 
14:09 < andytoshi> (we should clean up the code, reshape the gray part of the handle, and put up-arrows on the bottom sheet so that one appears through the window. but this is the idea)
14:10 < roconnor> andytoshi: I think I have a better solution, or a better interpretation of your words.
14:10 -!- ademan[m] [~ademanmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:16db] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:10 < andytoshi> oh, yeah, what i've done still isn't quite right, becasue you see index x through the window along with the symbol that 3 is supposed to map to
14:10 < andytoshi> where 'x' varies and 3 obviously doesn't
14:13 < andytoshi> oh i think i have an idea (maybe what you are thinking) ... we move the letters down (toward the center of the bottom wheel) along with the window on the top wheel, so i can put the 3^ back in place
14:13 < andytoshi> so the top wheel then has two windows
14:13 < andytoshi> one is a "real" window and the other is there so that the handle doesn't obscure things
14:17 < andytoshi> pushed to my f branch
14:22 -!- ademan[m] [~ademanmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:16db] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:22 -!- robertspigler [~robertspi@2001:470:69fc:105::2d53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:22 -!- cdecker[m] [~cdeckerma@2001:470:69fc:105::2e8e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:22 -!- rottenwheel [~rottenwhe@user/rottenwheel] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer]
14:23 -!- rottenwheel [~rottenwhe@user/rottenwheel] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:26 < andytoshi> roconnor: i kinda like this ... then we could modify the multiplication wheel to be the same (which would involve simply dulpicating the symbols on the bottom sheet, which is a bit silly but not bad, and shrinking the "aleph" arrow to match the other arrows
14:26 -!- RCasatta[m] [~rcasattam@2001:470:69fc:105::c85] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:26 -!- kakolainen[m] [~kakolaine@2001:470:69fc:105::34f9] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:26 -!- cdecker[m] [~cdeckerma@2001:470:69fc:105::2e8e] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:26 -!- robertspigler [~robertspi@2001:470:69fc:105::2d53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:26 -!- ademan[m] [~ademanmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:16db] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:27 < sipa> i like the separation of "secret" and "nonsecret" symbols into different character sets
14:27 < andytoshi> hmm, so one shitty thing about my design is that you can't see the order of the share indices on the bottom wheel, so it's hard to search through them
14:28 < andytoshi> sipa: unfortunately we couldn't go all the way with this, since share indices (which are nonsecret) have to share the "secret" alphabet
14:28 < roconnor> andytoshi: okay I pushed recover-slide
14:28 < roconnor> The layout is a bit of a mess, but that is my proposed mechanism.
14:29 < andytoshi> roconnor: cool!! let me convince my self that this actually works
14:29 < andytoshi> lol it's so much nicer than what i did
14:31 < andytoshi> yeah, wow, this is really slick
14:32 < roconnor> okay I tweaked the layout a bit.
14:32 < roconnor> TBH, this is what I thought you were saying.
14:32 < andytoshi> hahah we've gotten a lot of mileage out of "what russell thinks andrew was saying"
14:32 < andytoshi> much more than if we'd done what i actually intended :)
14:33 < roconnor> I haven't really tested it.
14:33 < andytoshi> roconnor: much nicer. one thing is that i think the window should be a bit taller ( i also think this about the multiplicationt wheel)
14:33 < roconnor> oh right, the window is in the wrong position.
14:34 < andytoshi> ah, yeah, it also needs to be raised (but imo you should just make it taller rather than raising it .. or at least do both)
14:37 < roconnor> I just made it taller.
14:37 < roconnor> this is just prototype
14:37 < roconnor> done
14:38 < andytoshi> lgtm. i'll print it out and try it
14:38 < roconnor> ah, I'm glad to remove one of the rings.
14:39 < andytoshi> agreed, this is super nice
14:46 -!- rottenwheel [~rottenwhe@user/rottenwheel] has quit [Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000]
14:48 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
14:49 -!- robertspigler [~robertspi@2001:470:69fc:105::2d53] has quit [Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000]
14:50 < andytoshi> i think the usability is pretty good. it's a little annoying that the letters are all in a weird order, but since you can see them all it's not too bad
14:50 -!- rottenwheel [~rottenwhe@user/rottenwheel] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:50 -!- robertspigler [~robertspi@2001:470:69fc:105::2d53] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:51 < andytoshi> also, you point the thing to share w, then look up x,y,z .... then point it to x and look up w,y,z ... then y and w,x,z, etc. so when you're doing multiple lookups it's always the same set of indices, which helps
14:52 < andytoshi> i tentatively think though that we should *not* do this with the translation wheel.
14:52 < andytoshi> for two reasons -- one is that with the translation wheel you have to do 48 random lookups which will make the lack of alphabetization much more of a pain
14:52 -!- kakolainen[m] [~kakolaine@2001:470:69fc:105::34f9] has quit [Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000]
14:52 < roconnor> there are 30 different arrangements of letters we can try, but none are going to be particularly nice.
14:52 -!- kakolainen[m] [~kakolaine@2001:470:69fc:105::34f9] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:52 < andytoshi> and two, we sorta get a "volvelles for secret data, slide rules for symbols" dichotomy if we leave the translation wheel alone
14:54 -!- RCasatta[m] [~rcasattam@2001:470:69fc:105::c85] has quit [Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000]
14:54 -!- ademan[m] [~ademanmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:16db] has quit [Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000]
14:54 < roconnor> I don't know.  The translation volvelle won't be half-sized.  Or do you want to keep the addition wheel big too?
14:54 < roconnor> big and sorted.
14:54 -!- RCasatta[m] [~rcasattam@2001:470:69fc:105::c85] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:54 -!- ademan[m] [~ademanmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:16db] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
14:55 < andytoshi> yeah .. i am still undecided on that
14:55 < roconnor> we can, of course, add compacted volvelles and slide rulers in a module.
14:55 < andytoshi> with R as our coset-determiner we can use the ordering CDGLNQPAEFHJKVXYMWTUSRZ762534098 which is my current favorite candidate ordering
14:56 < andytoshi> roconnor: ah, yeah, good point. i think maybe we should just do that.
14:56 < andytoshi> and leave the "default" scheme as is
14:57 < andytoshi> an additional thing to keep in mind is that new users will already be under a lot of cognitive load, and if we then make them search through random-looking alphabets, that'll be a meaningful hinderance to their understanding
14:58 < roconnor> Did the recover slide chart give the same results as the original volvelle?
14:59 < andytoshi> roconnor: yep
15:00 < andytoshi> and tbh it's a lot easier to read
15:00 < andytoshi> it's nice now that the symbols no longer appear on the interior of volvelles in the small font
15:00 < roconnor> andytoshi: find an optimal X for the order X^i + S for 0 <= i < 31
15:01 < andytoshi> roconnor: sure. give me ten
15:01 < roconnor> I mean, it's circular so the ends are adjacent to each other.
15:02 < roconnor> though that's also true for the coset order.
15:05 < andytoshi> yep, my fitness functions take that into account
15:05 < andytoshi> is it (X^i + S) or (X + S)^i ?
15:07 < andytoshi> ah yeah, X^i + S .. and we always skip i=0
15:16 < andytoshi> by the "distance to expected neighbor" metric i get A: DFXEN7JRT4ZKV5L06AUPCW8Y2GMQ9H3
15:17 < andytoshi> the metric i was using for addition just tried to shunt all the numeric digits together and didn't penalize based on their order within the cluster ... but since none of these orderings come even close to clustering the digits, that seemed like a bad metric
15:31 < andytoshi> wait, i my metric was implemented incorrectly, now i get 9: 4PHTU9RAQJ6M70GNL2E5YXV8FKWDZC3
15:33 < andytoshi> still wrong, now i get 2: 6XP78TGK9LDAECJY4MVH0FUNWR2ZQ53 but tbh they're all pretty close
15:33 < andytoshi> but you can see this one clusters ACDE which is good evidince that i finally got my indices straight
15:33  * andytoshi should re-run the addition search with this metric..
16:04 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
16:55 -!- geyaeb [~geyaeb@gateway/tor-sasl/geyaeb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:55 -!- geyaeb [~geyaeb@gateway/tor-sasl/geyaeb] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
17:27 -!- belcher [~belcher@user/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
17:43 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@71pc74.sshunet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
17:54 -!- b10c [uid500648@id-500648.ilkley.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
17:55 -!- bfsfhkacjzgcytf [~bfsfhkacj@user/bfsfhkacjzgcytf] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
18:47 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
18:56 -!- belcher [~belcher@user/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:04 -!- boON [~boON@user/boon] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:14 -!- plankster_ is now known as plank
19:19 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has quit [Quit: solocshaw]
19:19 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
19:50 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20:07 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:46 -!- plankster [~plankster@user/plankers] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
20:46 -!- plank [~plankster@user/plankers] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:47 < roconnor> /glyphwidth
20:47 < roconnor> {
20:47 < roconnor> gsave
20:47 < roconnor> nulldevice newpath 0 0 moveto glyphshow currentpoint
20:47 < roconnor> grestore
20:47 < roconnor> }bind def
20:47 < roconnor> https://comp.lang.postscript.narkive.com/N0FIjJtj/special-characters-and-superscripts-in-postscript-and-eps
20:47 < roconnor> I spent an hour trying to figure out how to find the width of a glyph.
20:49 < roconnor> actually there is maybe an issue with device rounding, but whatever.
21:00 -!- belcher [~belcher@user/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
21:56 -!- belcher [~belcher@user/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:18 -!- instantp10neer [~instantp1@user/instantp10neer] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
22:31 -!- cdecker[m] [~cdeckerma@2001:470:69fc:105::2e8e] has quit [Quit: Client limit exceeded: 20000]
22:57 -!- solocshaw1 [~Thunderbi@2601:2c6:4680:a10:218a:7867:61a3:36d0] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
22:57 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:01 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
23:02 -!- solocshaw1 [~Thunderbi@2601:2c6:4680:a10:218a:7867:61a3:36d0] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:03 -!- solocshaw [~Thunderbi@gateway/vpn/pia/solocshaw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
23:09 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
23:43 -!- tromp [~textual@dhcp-077-249-230-040.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
--- Log closed Fri Dec 10 00:00:56 2021