--- Log opened Thu May 05 00:00:14 2022
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03:18 < michaelfolkson> Does anyone have views on whether BIP discussion should be here or #bitcoin-dev? Or do people not care? I was under impression mailing list, BIPs discussion would be on #bitcoin-dev. Though I guess as long as it isn't on #bitcoin-core-dev it is fine
03:20 < michaelfolkson> Regardless... there seems to be more interest in BIPs currently, quality of BIPs, BIP process type stuff
03:23 < michaelfolkson> I don't see this as a negative though I strongly believe that the BIP process shouldn't be a tick box exercise to justify an activation attempt. Like "if you tick certain boxes and make a high quality BIP then you can attempt a soft fork activation"
03:24 < michaelfolkson> If there isn't community consensus for a soft fork activation attempt it doesn't matter if you have the highest quality BIP it doesn't matter
03:26 < michaelfolkson> But I do think we should strive for higher quality BIPs and BIP authors should be able to understand what to include to make it a "high quality" BIP
03:27 < michaelfolkson> There was very little interest in updating the BIP process last year when I started on it https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2021-October/019510.html
03:28 < michaelfolkson> If people are genuinely interested now we can work on it. I'm not sure if this interest in the BIP process is to justify future contentious soft fork activation attempts or people do actually care about improving the BIP process
03:31 < michaelfolkson> Or if this interest in the BIP process is a short term thing that will fizzle out when people move on to other things other than contentious soft fork activation attempts
03:32 < michaelfolkson> I liked this proposal for preventing a couple of years of continuous soft fork activation attempt drama https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinDiscussion/comments/uh1tk1/proposal_for_regular_release_schedule_of_only/
03:33 < michaelfolkson> I can't be the only one who doesn't want to spend the next couple of years fighting over contentious soft fork activation attempts
03:56 < glix> I like the "4 year period for introducing new softfork updates" mentioned in the reddit post but it might end up causing that one softfork to have many different changes. People might start cramming a lot of different consensus changes to qualify for the "next softfork update"
03:58 < glix> It might get tricky to bundle all of those changes into one neat package
04:00 < glix> but the general 4 year gap is definitely something worth having. No need to have another softfork for another 3.5 years
04:03 < michaelfolkson> glix: The thinking would be that if community thought it was being crammed in it wouldn't be included. Avoid contentious changes being included
04:03 < michaelfolkson> There were arguments from some to include APO, CTV etc in the Taproot soft fork. Theoretically they could have been
04:04 < michaelfolkson> But their inclusion may have caused the entire soft fork to be contentious. Presumably that was the reason why they weren't
04:07 < glix> michaelfolkson: ah I see, makes sense.
04:08 < michaelfolkson> I think the activation stuff kinda broke down when the rubber hit the road on Taproot activation but there are lots of good ideas here from Matt in 2020 on when soft fork activations should be attempted
04:08 < michaelfolkson> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2020-January/017547.html
04:09 < michaelfolkson> I'm kinda resigned to activation always being a little bit of a mess after Taproot activation but the soft fork being activated shouldn't be a mess
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04:36 < michaelfolkson> glix: Looking back at Taproot, what was going to be included in the soft fork was finalized towards the end of 2020 and then it took a year to get it activated on the network
04:37 < michaelfolkson> So if we were to do this for the next soft fork it would mean "finalizing" what was going to be included in the next soft fork by the end of 2024
04:39 < michaelfolkson> 2.5 years away
04:44 < michaelfolkson> I'm of the view that unless it proves impossible the soft fork (excluding activation) should be merged into Core first so we'd need to look at how this might fit into the Core release schedule
04:45 < michaelfolkson> Of course Core contributors could in theory collectively NACK it but you'd think it would get merged if it had community consensus and Core contributors were happy with it
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--- Log closed Fri May 06 00:00:15 2022