--- Log opened Wed Jan 10 00:00:25 2024
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07:39 < Chris_Stewart_5> my new soft fork proposal for 64 bit arithmetic, check it out https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/64-bith-arithmetic-soft-fork/397 
07:48 < andytoshi> nice! i imagine people will suggest trying to merge this with the OP_CAT bip
07:48 < andytoshi> or at least propose to deploy both at once
07:51 < Chris_Stewart_5> i'd rather not batch something uncontroversial (:tm:) like 64 bit arithmetic with OP_CAT but :man_shrugging: . Seems like we have a hard time deploying 'fat' soft forks. Is there synergies between the two or are they totally independent
07:56 < Chris_Stewart_5> also a q: Would it make sense to remove the old op codes (OP_ADD,OP_SUB etc) in the next witness version? I don't see a point in keeping them 
08:16 < jamesob> Chris_Stewart_5: the last few softforks have been quite fat
08:20 < Chris_Stewart_5> Yeah.. deploying once every ~4 years aint fun for anyone. Idk if that is because they are fat or people just have zero appetite for changing bitcoin. I like to think 64 bit arithmetic is about the less controversial thing we can agree would improve bitcoin, and as a by product can shake some soft fork PTSD but :man_shrugging:, maybe that isn't what the people want
08:21 < Chris_Stewart_5> 2015/2016 was much happier days, IIRC CSV/CLTV came out within 18 months of each other
08:22 < Chris_Stewart_5> we've got the basic infra to safely deploy things with segwit thankfully!
08:24 < andytoshi> fwiw i haven't seen controversy about CAT. i've seen a lot of _fears_ of controversy
08:24 < andytoshi> largely caused by my publicly posting about how to write covenants using it, sorry
08:27 < Chris_Stewart_5> idk i'm going to push for separate deployments with the goal of moving towards slim soft forks as the norm, and if i fail I fail but i think it is a goal worth striving for. You guys have a ton of good work over in elements (like 64 bit ops) but it seems like a garguantan task to pull it over. Hopefully we can pull over stuff bit by bit in digestable sizes
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08:29 < Chris_Stewart_5> I purposefully kept out the crypto op codes that this arithmetic work was merged into elements with to hopefully make this a dead simple :+1: on activating on bitcoin 
08:45 < andytoshi> ok, yeah, i like that philosophy
08:57 < reardencode> +1 to overcoming soft fork phobia one way or another (not sure whether the approach of disaggregating like you're doing or coalition building as I'm trying to with LNHANCE is going to carry, but we gotta unblock IMO)
09:13 < darosior> Disagree with doing a soft fork for the sake of it (or "unblocking"). Not saying 64bit arithmetic isn't useful, it is.
09:27 < reardencode> darosior: yeah, nobody's saying "soft fork _just_ to unblock" there are just a bunch of really valuable things that have been waiting a long time, and more coming along.
09:31 < darosior> Yes, don't want to be giving stop energy for valuable things of course. I just read "overcoming soft fork phobia" as "lowering the bar for soft forks" which i completely disagree with.
09:33 < andytoshi> well, one form of "lowering the bar for softforks" is to propose simpler softforks that don't require as much QA effort or consensus risk
09:33 < andytoshi> which i think is a good thing
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11:53 < Chris_Stewart_5> ^ x 1000
12:00 < Chris_Stewart_5> darosior: While I understand where you are coming from, that logic is now used as a cudgel against making any technical progress in the consensus layer other than the pace we are currently shipping - every ~4 years. 
12:01 < Chris_Stewart_5> shipping small incremental features should be encouraged like all other software projects and we should push back against shipping everything all at once every ~4 years
12:30 < reardencode> ^^^ :)
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13:41 < Ademan> are there any x values that are not valid secp256k1 x-only pubkeys?
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15:47 < jeremyrubin> Why is `hashTapLeaf(v || compact_size(size of s) || s);` defined comitting to the compact size of s, when that is redundant with the sha256 length comittment?
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--- Log closed Thu Jan 11 00:00:26 2024