2015-02-01.log

--- Log opened Sun Feb 01 00:00:41 2015
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andytosh1op_mul: my point was that i've read most of libsecp256k1 and the stuff that i read, i understood what was going on. i've tried to look at openssl and every time i get like one line in before i'm chasing macro definitions 5 files deep and can barely keep track of the high-level process, let alone what memory is being moved where06:14
andytosh1so "nobody is looking at this" is exacerbated by the fact that anyone who tries is chased off before they can get started06:15
andytosh1it also helps i think that there is apparently more paranoia in the bitcoin space (where libsecp256k1 is used) for some reason than there is in literally every other area of commerce combined (where openssl is used)06:17
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jgarzikandytoshi, Previously, finance could wave a wand and undo any attacker damage06:30
jgarzikandytoshi, That doesn't work with bitcoin ;p06:31
jgarzikwe have to be more paranoid06:31
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op_mulandytoshi: I follow.06:46
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sirajhow are governments supposed to tax people in a DAO world? When everything is a DAO, nothing has to be incorporated, no tax forms required, earnings are pseudonymous since its all in crypto, income tax becomes impossible. if governments aren't able to tax people forcibly, how are things like public roads going to get funded and avoid the free rider problem? crowdfunding can't work for everything?21:26
op_mulsiraj: off topic, #bitcoin or #mild-paranoia21:27
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gmaxwellhopefully someone in #bitcoin gives his insane question a reasonable answer.21:34
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phantomcircuitgmaxwell, he didn't ask it21:35
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jcorganwould it be considered #mild-paranoia to entertain the notion that TLAs have funded a program to send trolls to #bitcoin* ?21:47
jcorgan:)21:47
phantomcircuitjcorgan, there's been a decided uptick in crazy people recently21:48
jcorganyes.  disturbingly so.  just when bitcoin was getting boring and conventional.21:49
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gmaxwellI dunno I think it just comes in cycles, probably because its a small number of bad apples with many identities.21:51
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phantomcircuitmaybe21:52
phantomcircuitactually... probably21:53
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jcorgani have to say i've been a participant in many communities over the years, and this one seems to attact the largest number of otherwise seemingly normal people suddenly going off on conspiracy rants.21:55
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jcorganmaybe just wide tails.  lots of people at the other end, too.21:56
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op_mulI think it's just a subject that attracts that sort of person.21:58
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op_mulbitcointalk has some of the highest levels of insanity that I've ever seen on any forum.21:58
jcorganah, well.  back to your regularly scheduled -wizards21:59
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* andytoshi-logbot is logging21:59
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amincdAs I understand it, having a UTXO commit in the block header is resource-intensive because it requires miners to continuously calculate new UXTO merkle root hashes as they include new transactions in the block they're working on. How about putting the merkle root of the UTXO set of the PREVIOUS block in the block the miner generates?23:25
amincdAnd that way light clients can only store the last block, and the UTXO, to verify whether a transaction is valid23:26
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amincd*and the UTXO set23:28
amincdor just the commit of the UTXO set23:28
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amincds/store the last block/store transactions generated since the last block/23:31
sipaamincd: that's an idea that has been suggested; i believe that's reasonable23:32
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amincdsipa: thanks for your assessment23:33
gmaxwellamincd: it doesn't change the work required, though it would reduce the latency impact.23:34
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amincdgmaxwell: you only need to calculate the UTXO merke root once in this implementation, as opposed to every time a new tx is received23:35
gmaxwellamincd: You don't otherwise need to compute it every time a new tx is recieved.23:35
sipayou don't do it for every new transaction; just for every attempted block23:35
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sipabut that is likely still more than once23:36
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gmaxwellone will still need potentially a factor log(utxo size) more IO to process each utxo update, you just have more time to do it. Having more time /may/ result in more batching gain, but if the tree is large compared to the number of entries updated the batching gain is small.23:36
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phantomcircuithttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/silk-road-trial-how-the-dread-pirate-roberts-embraced-violence/23:41
phantomcircuit"Every bitcoin transaction is published in a kind of digital-age public ledger at the blockchain.info website."23:41
phantomcircuitfor shits sake23:41
justanotheruserphantomcircuit: andreas will be talking at the trial soon23:41
op_mulphantomcircuit: my money is on some government raiding blockchain.info thinking they are the heart of bitcoin.23:42
phantomcircuitop_mul, that would be23:43
phantomcircuitlol23:43
phantomcircuiti can see that happening23:43
justanotheruserI hope they're smarter than that23:43
op_multhere's a story in the bitcoin issues where someone is arrested based on the "relayed by" ip address blockchain.info shows.23:43
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justanotheruserI think a bc.i raid is a bit different, but I suppose it could happen23:44
op_mulI was going to host DNS seeds at one point, and then realised they probaby attract a lot of unwanted attention.23:48
op_mulif you wanted to poison new clients coming into the network, that's an easy target.23:48
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op_muljust make a bunch of nodes, have your seed only return those nodes, done.23:49
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phantomcircuitoops wrong channel23:58
phantomcircuit<sipa> you don't do it for every new transaction; just for every attempted block23:58
phantomcircuitthat is likely every transaction23:58
phantomcircuitor very nearly so23:58
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 02 00:00:07 2015

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