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| kanzure | "self-identifying hashes" https://github.com/jbenet/random-ideas/issues/1 https://github.com/jbenet/multihash | 06:52 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | merkle directed acyclic graph (dag) stuff https://github.com/jbenet/random-ideas/issues/20 | 06:53 |
| kanzure | "Compact proofs of retrievability" http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~hovav/dist/verstore.pdf | 06:56 |
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| kanzure | "Decentralizing privacy: Using blockchain to protect personal data" http://web.media.mit.edu/~guyzys/data/ZNP15.pdf | 07:42 |
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| kanzure | multi-party computation involving boolean circuits http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/project/Fairplay/FairplayMP.html | 07:50 |
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| kanzure | two-party mpc https://github.com/encryptogroup/tasty | 07:52 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/cryptobiu/ScGarbledCircuit | 07:53 |
| kanzure | two-party mpc library https://github.com/encryptogroup/ABY | 07:55 |
| kanzure | this says "we went from emulating a trusted third party running a 30 Hz CPU to one running a 6 kHz CPU in two years" (for mpc) http://u.cs.biu.ac.il/~orlandi/icassp-draft.pdf | 07:56 |
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| kanzure | .tw https://twitter.com/DEVOPS_BORAT/status/310165414338494464 | 10:03 |
| yoleaux | You can not able have unlimit scalability without unlimit outage. (@DEVOPS_BORAT) | 10:03 |
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| gmaxwell | hah | 10:19 |
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| psztorc | Hi everyone. I've written something about measuring (and then improving) Bitcoin's decentralization: http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/measuring-decentralization/ | 12:42 |
| psztorc | Major conclusion is that centralization is tied to the cost of running a full node. | 12:42 |
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| psztorc | In the process, I also go on a bit of an intense tour of mining and hard/soft forks. | 12:43 |
| kanzure | lots of bolded text, not sure why | 12:45 |
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| smooth | psztorc: your diagram and satoshi quote are kind of busted, since gnutella has supernodes | 14:09 |
| waxwing | argh .. that 'decentralized' vs 'distributed' picture again .. makes no sense :( | 14:09 |
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| waxwing | "It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”" +1 psztorc | 14:11 |
| waxwing | i like that way of putting it. people tend to think you're some angsty teen anarchist if you only say the second part :) | 14:11 |
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| maaku | that's a very nice tweet-sized expression of decentralization, thanks psztorc | 14:18 |
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| waxwing | psztorc: typo "you need to be join the club, and stay in" | 14:32 |
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| psztorc | thanks everyone | 14:57 |
| nullbyte | its good, psztorc | 14:59 |
| psztorc | smooth: Do you think the gnutella supernodes harms the line of reasoning? I do wish Satoshi had just said "Bittorrent". | 14:59 |
| belcher | the name bitcoin alludes strongly to bittorrent | 15:00 |
| psztorc | Yeah and even the concept of a tracker kind of parallels the genesis block hash | 15:00 |
| psztorc | I did not consider the gnutella supernodes, but I think the ideas survive that incongruity..Satoshi clearly *does* mean "headless", no single point of failure, hard to attack, 100% decentralized. | 15:02 |
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| smooth | psztorc: i dont know enough about how gnutella actually works. i just thought it was a poor fit with the message you were trying to convey with the picture (and following text) | 15:05 |
| psztorc | The other confusing thing is that it kind of overlaps with the Usenet analogy later, hard to know to put all of that in a good order. | 15:06 |
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| smooth | the usenet analogy is an interesting one, but perhaps flawed because spam on usenet made it intolerable to use, not just expensive | 15:10 |
| smooth | so much of the use value was destroyed by spam in a way that wouldn't necessarily be the case with bitcoin (I dont actually to personally sort through other people's junk transactions) | 15:11 |
| smooth | *dont actually need to | 15:11 |
| smooth | nor are people creating bitcoin spam to sell me something | 15:12 |
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| zooko | smooth: sounds exactly right. | 15:14 |
| zooko | Usenet was *not* killed by spam soaking up its bulk data capacity. | 15:14 |
| zooko | It was killed by spam soaking up its human-navigation capacity. | 15:15 |
| smooth | zooko: the volume de facto centralized it though, which was part of psztorc's point i think | 15:15 |
| smooth | back in the day you just needed a modem and some peer willing to feed you. later it became almost entirely buying access to a large server from some corp | 15:17 |
| psztorc | I intended to express the concept that, while the data was itself decentralized, the actual *data layer* (the cables and computers) weren't private and were therefore subordinate to a central legislature. | 15:17 |
| zooko | I haven't seen psztorc's write-up yet, sorry. | 15:17 |
| zooko | I don't know if I agree with "volume centralized Usenet" and I don't think that even if it did that was relevant to Usenet's death. | 15:17 |
| zooko | But maybe psztorc knows more about the history of Usenet than I do. :-) | 15:17 |
| smooth | i agree death was more human based | 15:17 |
| smooth | human capacity | 15:17 |
| zooko | psztorc: that sounds wrong to me. Usenet was never successfully legislated/policed. | 15:18 |
| zooko | It was unnecessary for it to be, since it died due to spam overloading the human navigation systems long before legislators or police knew what it was. :-) | 15:19 |
| zooko | I believe it is still in use for bulk illegal data today. | 15:19 |
| psztorc | Funny you should mention that, I bring it up. | 15:19 |
| smooth | yeah i agree. charles schumer never went on tv and called for banning usenet | 15:19 |
| zooko | Okay, sorry, I'll shut up until I read your writings. :-) | 15:19 |
| smooth | although if he knew what was on there he certainly woudl have | 15:19 |
| psztorc | But I don't know a lot about Usenet...I did some background reading and multiple sources agreed that law enforcement put pressure on ISPs to deprecate the service. | 15:20 |
| smooth | i think that is largely true | 15:20 |
| smooth | maybe not even law enforcement per se, but their own lawyers | 15:20 |
| psztorc | And basically 0% of the current internet users even know what it is (which deserves some explanation). | 15:20 |
| psztorc | But I really do NOT know a lot about Usenet, and would welcome any corrections. | 15:21 |
| psztorc | My Usenet point is that, if the government *really* cared (big if), they could close Usenet down. | 15:22 |
| zooko | psztorc: okay, I'm 85% sure that what you say is 92% correct. Gotta run. :-) | 15:25 |
| psztorc | Ok thanks : ) | 15:25 |
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| kanzure | "todd trees" | 15:49 |
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| tanath | actually, usenet is neither dead, nor unpoliced | 18:31 |
| tanath | dmca takedowns galore | 18:31 |
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| kanzure | "wikipedia tls cipher stats" https://grafana.wikimedia.org/#/dashboard/db/tls-ciphers | 20:35 |
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| SheffieldCrypto | Hello all, we are looking so a trading system architect to build a system centered around the signals produced from our advanced predictive models, please review our recruitment doc and apply if you feel you are qualified https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mu_E3-TrYqM47at9srR7srBdDCjWq29Ia3y8nGS2n-I/edit | 21:31 |
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| maaku | tanath: are you confusing usenet index servers with usenet itself? | 23:24 |
| tanath | no, content actually does get taken down from usenet | 23:25 |
| tanath | most these days have a mix of servers as backup to get all the parts they need | 23:25 |
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| tanath | or, they're taken down fast enough that you have to be quick to beat it | 23:25 |
| maaku | tanath: what I mean is usenet is decentralized. you can run your own usenet server | 23:26 |
| tanath | they've started going more underground. more private. using random names | 23:26 |
| tanath | you need the indexer or something to know what the files actually are, since they're randomly named to avoid takedown | 23:27 |
| tanath | technically yes, but there's dmca for america, eucd or whatever for europe... | 23:28 |
| maaku | serving files via usenet is weird to me. like a broken hack that shouln't have worked in the first place :\ | 23:28 |
| tanath | actually good things have come of it. like par2 | 23:28 |
| tanath | wish that was more widespread | 23:28 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Sep 10 00:00:06 2015 | ||
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