| --- Log opened Mon Sep 28 00:00:40 2015 | ||
| --- Day changed Mon Sep 28 2015 | ||
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| rusty | Dumb schnorr question: uses a different pubkey from ECDSA signatures, right? | 00:26 |
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| gmaxwell | rusty: same pubkeys. | 00:40 |
| rusty | gmaxwell: oh, I'm clearly confused then. So you generate the priv and pub keys the same as normal? | 00:40 |
| rusty | gmaxwell: Hmm, wikipedia describes key gen for Schnorr as pub = g^priv. And for ECDSA id describes pub = priv x G. | 00:47 |
| rusty | I took that to mean they are different, but looking at libsecp256k1, the lack of separate keygen functions for schnorr makes it pretty clear. | 00:50 |
| nsh | heh | 00:50 |
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| roasbeef | rusty: yeh, they're equivalent. THe wikipedia article uses multiplicative notation, while when speaking of ECC we typically use additive notation (with scalars being lowercase, and group elements being uppercase) | 10:31 |
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| arubi | I think the confusion was with the 'x' vs '^' notation? at least for me it was until now | 10:33 |
| arubi | er.. maybe not. I'm already too deep into so many tangents and I'm already getting lost in some.. | 10:35 |
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| Mixlez | ^ implies discrete logarithm (raise to power, modulo N), x implies elliptic discrete logarithm (ECC multiplication) | 10:36 |
| arubi | thanks Mixlez. I see where my confusion lies now. | 10:38 |
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| MRL-Relay | [shen] what's the deal with this "Compact CT" I've heard on reddit was broken.. is there a description somewhere? | 13:02 |
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| kanzure | MRL-Relay: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085436.0 | 13:03 |
| kanzure | er, shen^ | 13:03 |
| MRL-Relay | [shen] thanks :) | 13:04 |
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| nsh | broken? | 13:14 |
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| MRL-Relay | [shen] hmm it looks like : "Unfortunately, Andrew Poelstra was able to break the cryptosystem for this scheme's range-proofs. " is one of the comments on that thread, so I assume that is what they were reffering to | 13:21 |
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| maaku | it remains to be seen if it will hold up to review | 14:07 |
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| nsh | guys | 14:30 |
| nsh | who will write [i'm looking at you kanzure] a pdf.js patch that automatically adds dates to 'academic papers' | 14:30 |
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| nsh | or in this instance, tell me when https://www.cs.umd.edu/~elaine/docs/permacoin.pdf was written | 14:31 |
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| nsh | even google scholar gives different dates depending on where it's found the paper | 14:31 |
| phantomcircuit | nsh, it would be oh so nice if it became standard practice to put the date of publication in papers | 14:32 |
| nsh | well, a pdj.js patch could, you know, attest to the first viewing of a version of a paper | 14:32 |
| nsh | and add that date into the text | 14:32 |
| nsh | with the science | 14:32 |
| nsh | that we all sit here pontificating about | 14:32 |
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| nsh | but i'm not doing it because my dog ate the box where i keep the thing that means i do actual stuff to improve the world | 14:33 |
| nsh | but there's nothing stopping anyone who hasn't taken solemn vows of non-productivity from fixing this problem | 14:33 |
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| nsh | ]PORs: Proofs of Retrievability for Large Files - Ari Juels is cited 1059 times | 14:35 |
| nsh | i guess these numbers don't really mean much, coming from the google school of RNG corpus statistics | 14:36 |
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| Ylbam | Does anybody here know this guy? http://www.cs.umd.edu/~wangxiao/ | 14:38 |
| Ylbam | Personaly I mean | 14:38 |
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| amiller | Ylbam, yeah | 14:41 |
| Ylbam | Ah great, could he be invested in crypto currencies? | 14:42 |
| amiller | uh, that would surprise me, but who knows, why? | 14:42 |
| Ylbam | ah, I wonder if he could have been working on primecoin some time ago | 14:43 |
| Ylbam | I remember seeing a similar name on the original version of the primecoin whitepaper (removed since) | 14:44 |
| Ylbam | Do you work with him? | 14:45 |
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| amiller | Ylbam, yup, we work in the same lab at umd | 14:47 |
| nsh | amiller, how hard would it be to implement permacoin in a sidechain, at PoC level at least? | 14:48 |
| nsh | we are just discussing options for archiving the internet archive in another castle | 14:48 |
| nsh | oh, the incentive model requires that privkeys are valueable, and therefore [at this point at least] btc or btc-pegged | 14:49 |
| nsh | i don't know if latency cost scaling can be modelled for adaptive difficulty control as easily as hashrate | 14:51 |
| amiller | yeah, today i'd rather decouple permacoin from having to be an "altcoin" on its own, i'd rather have a smart contract system of some kind that just assigned portions of the dataset to people and would pay them to respond periodically with challenges | 14:51 |
| amiller | that could be done with a sidechain i guess | 14:51 |
| * nsh nods | 14:52 | |
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| amiller | i've been trying to get sidechains alpha to run for a couple of weeks and haven't been able to get it working yet | 14:52 |
| nsh | oh dear; i succeeded a while back but that laptop got screensmashed. will have another go soon | 14:52 |
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| amiller | lmk when you do! | 14:53 |
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| * nsh nods | 14:54 | |
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| nsh | amiller, or gmaxwell or someone: remind me why index calculus is not useful to attack ECC again | 17:46 |
| nsh | was it to do with smoothness | 17:46 |
| * nsh reads: http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/8301/trying-to-better-understand-the-failure-of-the-index-calculus-for-ecdlp | 17:47 | |
| nsh | .t | 17:47 |
| yoleaux | Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:47:17 UTC | 17:47 |
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| nsh | .title | 17:47 |
| yoleaux | nsh: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 17:47 |
| nsh | right there's no notion of prime factorisation in the field so you can't rely on the density of small factors | 17:48 |
| nsh | is that vaguely on track? | 17:48 |
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| nsh | .wik Unique factorisation domain | 17:49 |
| yoleaux | "In mathematics, a unique factorization domain (UFD) is a commutative ring in which every non-zero non-unit element can be written as a product of prime elements (or irreducible elements), uniquely up to order and units, analogous to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic for the integers." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_factorisation_domain | 17:49 |
| nsh | except it's not proven that particular nor general ECs lack a UFD, just strongly suspected, right? | 17:50 |
| nsh | but there is | 17:51 |
| nsh | .wik Stark Heenger theorem | 17:51 |
| yoleaux | "In number theory, a branch of mathematics, the Stark–Heegner theorem states precisely which quadratic imaginary number fields admit unique factorisation in their ring of integers. It solves a special case of Gauss's class number problem of determining the number of imaginary quadratic fields that have a given fixed class number." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark%E2%80%93Heegner_theorem | 17:51 |
| nsh | the curves used in ECC do not admit complex multiplication as a rule? | 17:52 |
| nsh | and all this relates to cyclotomic fields somehow | 17:53 |
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| nsh | there's no way i'm going to understand enough mathematics without acquiring kanzure-level brainhalation faculties or concocting some more efficient way of receiving concepts than verbally | 17:54 |
| nsh | :/ | 17:54 |
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| andytoshi | shen: the comment on bct about my breaking CCT does not refer to the current way i think it's broken :) | 18:39 |
| andytoshi | but i have an unread email from the author and don't want to say more til i've read that | 18:39 |
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| MRL-Relay | [shen] andytoshi, I see - I would be interested in more compact CT, so it would be nice if there was a fix although I'm not overly hopeful | 20:05 |
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