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| proslogion | can you ever have something like a formally verified consensus lib? | 04:28 |
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| kanzure | proslogion: formal verification is definitely a goal for consensus-critical code, yes. | 07:52 |
| proslogion | kanzure: thanks | 07:52 |
| kanzure | and also formal verification of merklized abstract syntax trees and various transaction scripts | 07:52 |
| kanzure | Taek: dunno if it would eliminate the requirement for PoW (probably not), but it would be nice to have a family of hash functions where you can assert self-consistency with a set of rules that hash to a particular value that is easy to verify but intractable to forge | 07:55 |
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| kanzure | Taek: (such that the rule adherence can be verified without total verification) (i mean, other than time-dependent rules like ordering...) | 07:55 |
| kanzure | Taek: somewhat like the idea of renaming bitcoin to "the hash of a formally verified spec of the bitcoin rules" hehe | 07:56 |
| bsm117532 | We'd definitely have to write down a formal definition from the rules and depart from this "Satoshi's code is the bug-for-bug protocol" silliness. | 07:58 |
| bsm117532 | *of the rules | 07:58 |
| kanzure | i would agree with you if by that you mean "the existing bugs get included in the definition" | 08:00 |
| kanzure | unfortunately sussing out all the bugs is pretty challenging, because unknown unknowns and such | 08:00 |
| bsm117532 | The existing bugs get found and fixed. | 08:02 |
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| nsh | core can converge on a formal model but should remain consensus-canonical while it does | 09:46 |
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| maaku | proslogion: iirc testing of libsecp256k1 involved some formal verification | 09:53 |
| proslogion | maaku: i will search for that, thanks | 09:53 |
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| maaku | i'm not sure your search will turn up anything, but you can ask on #secp256k1 | 09:54 |
| proslogion | cool | 09:55 |
| maaku | by which I mean it was just something people did, and I'm not sure it's documented | 09:55 |
| maaku | anyway it is definately a goal among a certain subset of people (including those who did libsecp256k1) to rework the consensus code to be amenable to increasingly better formal verification | 09:56 |
| maaku | it's one of the reasons libsecp256k1 and all other new consensus code is typically done in C -- the tools are better for C over C++ | 09:57 |
| proslogion | interesting, i didn't know there are tools for that :) | 09:58 |
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| maaku | well the tools call it 'static analysis' but that's just formal verification by another name | 10:07 |
| nickler | proslogion: I did not play around with formal verification, but I've applied a technique called 'symbolic execution' to some parts of the libsecp code. (https://klee.github.io/) | 10:08 |
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| Taek | bsm117532: fixing bugs is a hardfork, unfortunately. At that point it's almost better to create a separate currency entirely | 14:44 |
| kanzure | technically, a hard-fork is only when the bug has been triggered or exploited | 14:46 |
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| jzoticus | hey, anyone around? | 23:00 |
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