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| fluffypony | bsm117532 is talking at the Onchain Scaling conference online | 08:01 |
|---|---|---|
| fluffypony | starting now | 08:01 |
| fluffypony | http://onchainscaling.com/live.html | 08:01 |
| fluffypony | (about Braids) | 08:01 |
| othe | how does that work | 08:06 |
| othe | it wants me to signup etc | 08:06 |
| fluffypony | yeah that's Cisco WebEx | 08:06 |
| pigeons | i signed up and it still didnt send me a link. then i looked at the schedule again and im not really interested | 08:13 |
| fluffypony | well except for my talk, hey pigeons :-P | 08:15 |
| pigeons | yeah, i'll catch the recording :) | 08:15 |
| instagibbs | make sure to drop a link for fluffypony and bsm117532 talk | 08:16 |
| instagibbs | once recorded | 08:16 |
| fluffypony | will do | 08:16 |
| pigeons | actually maybe i'll wait for the kanzure transcripts :) | 08:17 |
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| fluffypony | https://onchain.webex.com/onchain/onstage/g.php?MTID=e18d33d42703902b1511f47671baac37f | 08:17 |
| fluffypony | if anyone wants live | 08:17 |
| pigeons | thanks | 08:17 |
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| fluffypony | https://blog.torproject.org/blog/selfrando-q-and-georg-koppen <- that's cool | 08:21 |
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| instagibbs | oh yeah wumpus saw this project a few days ago I think | 08:37 |
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| wumpus | yes it's very neat, using -ffunction-sections to generate the prerequisite data from the compiler to do per-function ASLR at runtime | 08:51 |
| wumpus | slicing up the program very thinly and reconstructing it | 08:51 |
| wumpus | I did quite some experiments with ffunction-sections for extracting per-function statistics, but never thought of this, it's genius | 08:51 |
| wumpus | currently the implementation is 64-bit only, but inprinciple this even makes secure ASLR practical on 32-bit | 08:54 |
| wumpus | the only worry is cache effects, funcitons put close together for cache efficiency reasons coudl end up at opposite sides of the address space. But I gues that's a question of granularity | 08:55 |
| fluffypony | but practically how much of a degradation would that have | 08:57 |
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| wumpus | depends on the case, RAM is extremely slow compared to cache so there could be nasty cases. But anyhow for programs where security trumps performance manyfold (especially where you'd use more expensive mitigation techniques too) it's not really important. | 08:59 |
| wumpus | oh another potential issue: troubleshooting traceback addresses. Addrline won't work as-is at least :-) Potentially ,if the randomization happens using a seed, it could just dump that seed with the troubleshooting info I guess. | 09:01 |
| wumpus | arguably this is already a problem with current ASLR, where you need the module base addresses to make any sense of a traceback | 09:02 |
| wumpus | in any case, this would be something to consider for cryptocurrency P2P software, as soon as the implementation matures | 09:03 |
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| fluffypony | yeah definitely | 09:04 |
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| smooth | function address seems almost irrelevant to cache unless the functions are tiny (within the same cache line) | 09:44 |
| smooth | virtual memory potentially if you are swapping but does anyone do that any more? | 09:45 |
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| super3 | is luke-jr around this time of day? | 10:33 |
| helo | often | 10:36 |
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| kanzure | pigeons: other stuff has been occupying my attnetion today, hopefully they are recorded though, because no way for me to time travel to type for stuff i am not watching at the moment, as far as i know | 11:35 |
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| GreenIsMyPepper | Hypothetically, what is more expensive: 1 extra byte in the script or one extra checksig opcode? | 12:17 |
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| instagibbs | in scriptpubkey/redeemscript? | 12:18 |
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| GreenIsMyPepper | redeemScript | 12:19 |
| roasbeef | extra byte in the redeemSript or an extra checksig which is executed in the common case | 12:19 |
| GreenIsMyPepper | (this is not a troll question, me and roasbeef are discussing and we don't have a good answer) | 12:21 |
| instagibbs | You could pipe it through a block cost checking function in unit tests or something | 12:21 |
| instagibbs | (sorry I don't know off top of head) | 12:21 |
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| roasbeef | ok, we ended up converging on one extra citing that witness pruning will be common in the near future (?) | 12:32 |
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| roasbeef | one extra byte* | 12:33 |
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| instagibbs | hm? you mean it eventually will be stuck in the witness data and discounted? | 12:55 |
| iddo | ls | 12:56 |
| iddo | oops | 12:57 |
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| roasbeef | instagibbs: as in, by and large the storage cost on the network for that extra byte is eliminated once witness pruning is more widespread+implemented. I was going add it within by segwit implementation for btcd, but ended up punting since I would've needed to alter the DB code much more | 13:54 |
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| kanzure | "Computational integrity with a public random string from quasi-linear PCPs" http://eprint.iacr.org/2016/646.pdf | 19:53 |
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| kanzure | "This work introduces SCI, the first implementation of a scalable PCP system (that uses both PCPPs and proof composition). We used SCI to prove correctness of executions of up to 2^20 cycles of a simple processor (Figure 1) and calculated (Figure 2) its break-even point [SVP + 12, SMBW12]. The significance of our findings is two-fold: (i) it marks the transition of core PCP techniques (like proof composition and PCPs of Proximity) from ... | 19:55 |
| kanzure | ... mathematical theory to practical system engineering, and (ii) the thresholds obtained are nearly achievable and hence show that PCP-supported computational integrity is closer to reality than previously assumed." | 19:55 |
| kanzure | "But in contrast to SCI, all previous solutions circumvent the use of core PCP techniques like proof composition [AS98], low-degree testing and the use of PCPs of proximity (PCPP) [BGH+05, DR06]; these techniques are crucial for obtaining succinct proofs with a public setup process, discussed below." | 19:55 |
| kanzure | is public setup the same thing as trustless setup? | 19:56 |
| kanzure | bottom of page 4 seems to explain that this is not the trapdoor key scheme | 19:57 |
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