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| proslogion | can you interactively prove the knowledge of a solution to a CNF-SAT problem in zero knowledge? | 03:42 |
|---|---|---|
| @gmaxwell | you can prove _non_ interactively any NP statement in Zk. | 03:43 |
| @gmaxwell | so yes. | 03:43 |
| proslogion | gmaxwell: well the problem i have is the cost associated with NIZK | 03:43 |
| proslogion | the prover needs to do tons more work is it? | 03:44 |
| @gmaxwell | the mental MPC based scheme linked to a day or so ago has a pretty fast prover. | 03:45 |
| @gmaxwell | e.g. proving a sha1 hash took a few milliseconds. | 03:45 |
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| proslogion | right, but isn't the point of ZKCP that the prover sells solutions for an income? | 03:47 |
| @gmaxwell | yes? and? | 03:48 |
| proslogion | so ideally he should be able to perform the computations much faster than the verifier | 03:48 |
| @gmaxwell | no no no | 03:48 |
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| @gmaxwell | the work that the prover does at proof time is _NOT_ the coming up with the solution. | 03:48 |
| proslogion | oh, so he should have some trap doors that he computes in advance? | 03:48 |
| @gmaxwell | It is only proving that it has one (and that the encryption keys and whatnot agree) | 03:48 |
| @gmaxwell | which means that the prover is only running the verification (and some wrapper logic.) | 03:49 |
| proslogion | yeah, i think i get you | 03:49 |
| @gmaxwell | by verification I mean code that the verifier would use to decide to accept the solution, if the task weren't being done in ZK. | 03:49 |
| @gmaxwell | and in the case of zkcp since the buyer can bail out at any point (and not get the information); it is sutiable really mostly for information that the seller already has and could sell for little to no marginal cost. | 03:50 |
| @gmaxwell | you wouldn't want to ZKCP for some task where you'd have to do a lot of work, because the buyer could walk without paying. | 03:50 |
| @gmaxwell | (unless you thought you could get another buyer for the same data) | 03:51 |
| proslogion | yeah, but otoh you could be a server and the buyer could be a pathetic mobile device | 03:51 |
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| nsh | is the optimisation for finding a y coord in secp256k1 with pow(x^3+7,(p+1)/4) explained anywhere? | 10:06 |
| nsh | cc waxwing | 10:06 |
| nsh | -- | 10:06 |
| nsh | We use a known mathematical trick to find H y efficiently [11]: | 10:06 |
| nsh | >>> H_y = pow(int(H_x*H_x*H_x + 7), int((btc.P+1)//4), int(btc.P)) | 10:07 |
| nsh | -- essayonct.pdf | 10:07 |
| waxwing | nsh: not really one for me, but isn't that just a standard mathematical thing? | 10:07 |
| waxwing | oh right. it's on wikipedia. | 10:07 |
| nsh | raise to the power of the group order plus one divided by four instead of square rooting? not standard to me, but i'm incredibly uneducated | 10:07 |
| nsh | in which article? | 10:08 |
| waxwing | it's in the referred link [11] | 10:09 |
| nsh | ty | 10:10 |
| waxwing | cant remember where i read it, i think it was on bitcointalk or stackexchange, at least | 10:10 |
| @gmaxwell | nsh: it's a well known result due to (IIRC lagrange) that if P is congruent to 3 mod 4 you can compute the sqrt as P+1//4. | 10:11 |
| nsh | larange aye | 10:11 |
| nsh | another due to legendre for n = 5 (mod 8) | 10:11 |
| nsh | neato | 10:11 |
| @gmaxwell | there is a similar technique for the modular inverse (fermats little theorem) | 10:12 |
| @gmaxwell | nsh: there are more recent solutions for other primes too that are somewhat more complex to compute. | 10:13 |
| nsh | cool | 10:13 |
| nsh | this lifting stuff [[Hensel's lemma]] looks fun too | 10:14 |
| @gmaxwell | it's common for curves to be chosen so that P is congruent to 3 mod 4 in order to get access to this 'fast' sqrt. (not that it's all that fast... :) ) | 10:15 |
| nsh | hrm | 10:17 |
| nsh | oh, i scared myself there haha... misread https://btc.com/5e65f46475696d92f82b77003f13175a57b46ddd5d03ba16933fc64d278041c1 as someone having spent from 1GeNvL5h8AqFJ3o3TtdzYiJ27LVtLUN7Aa | 10:18 |
| nsh | (which is H's address) | 10:18 |
| waxwing | yeah i need to go back and double check that. there's more than 1 possibility and i might have got the wrong one. was a long time ago. | 10:18 |
| waxwing | well there's at least 2 right, uncompressed etc. | 10:19 |
| * nsh nods | 10:20 | |
| nsh | if i ever break ECDLP i'll spent one satoshi+fees from that input just as a heads-up okay | 10:20 |
| nsh | pinkie promise | 10:20 |
| waxwing | heh. but, where did you get 1Ge.. ? | 10:20 |
| nsh | no i miscopied | 10:21 |
| nsh | 1D8eDztgv79J59V7UBBpNGnRE6hjstqKb5 | 10:21 |
| nsh | sorry | 10:21 |
| waxwing | oh i see :) | 10:21 |
| waxwing | uhh someone paid to that? interesting... | 10:21 |
| waxwing | looks like they used joinmarket :) | 10:22 |
| nsh | ritual burnt offering | 10:23 |
| waxwing | phi/10 (or Phi/100)? | 10:23 |
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| waxwing | i think i know who did that :) | 10:24 |
| nsh | it's probably the final stage of cicada 2020 | 10:24 |
| nsh | :P | 10:24 |
| waxwing | is that still going? | 10:24 |
| nsh | nah, i think it dried up last year | 10:25 |
| proslogion | what's this about | 10:25 |
| nsh | probably recruited all the weirdos they need to save humanity from a lack of appreciation for william blake and haikus or whatever | 10:25 |
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| nsh | .wik Cicada 3301 | 10:26 |
| yoleaux | "Cicada 3301 is a name given to an enigmatic organization that on six occasions has posted a set of complex puzzles and alternate reality games to recruit codebreakers from the public. The first internet puzzle started on January 4, 2012, and ran for approximately one month." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicada_3301 | 10:26 |
| proslogion | yeah but what does that have to do with that address | 10:27 |
| waxwing | nothing, he's just saying such eccentricity is vaguely suggestive of that kind of thing | 10:28 |
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| * nsh smiles | 10:29 | |
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| nsh | i don't recall they ever touched on anything elliptic, but i didn't pay close attention | 10:29 |
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| waxwing | huh, just yesterday, curious coincidence | 10:31 |
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| waxwing | no, doh, it was last year sorry. how did i read that so wrong? /facepalm | 10:33 |
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| nsh | dates are hard. #1country does them wrong as a matter of principle | 10:36 |
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| waxwing | i couldn't help looking again, turns out i chose the wrong root :) compressed is 1CL6niRb19faMRnYSr4N135wp7YhP44mKd and uncompressed is 1Jp8T2cUdqfcq6P3wECKvcMJu27AByk2B | 12:20 |
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| waxwing | how does sage's "lift_x" choose the square root? couldn't find docs | 12:21 |
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| Cloudflare | y a des chan français sur freenode mryandao ? | 17:31 |
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| mryandao | i dont speak french | 17:41 |
| Cloudflare | mryandao: that's just plain rude | 17:43 |
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| luke-jr | it's rude to not speak French? | 17:57 |
| Cloudflare | luke-jr: I think I just had mryandao | 18:00 |
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| e0 | anyone know if the python implementation of coinshuffle++ has been published anywhere? | 18:39 |
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| kanzure | e0: they did not write this one but here's a thing https://github.com/DanielKrawisz/Shufflepuff/commits/master | 18:40 |
| kanzure | er this was probably before coinshuffle++ | 18:41 |
| kanzure | http://crypsys.mmci.uni-saarland.de/projects/CoinShuffle/code/coinshuffle_code.tar.gz | 18:42 |
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| e0 | I've been folllowing shufflepuff, it looks like they are making lots of progress. I asked on twitter and they said they weren't rolling the coinshuffle++ changes into shufflepuff, but maybe that has changed now. | 19:07 |
| e0 | Sadly the tar.gz is the old code. | 19:09 |
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| e0 | heres the tweet https://twitter.com/DanielKrawisz/status/743815075027312640 | 19:12 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Aug 12 00:00:23 2016 | ||
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