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17:08 < tigermousr> i now have three funded channels to three nodes, including lightning lizards. but still have the same issue. can make payments, but not receive. Payment Error: unable to route payment to destination: TemporaryChannelFailure(update=(*lnwire.ChannelUpdate)
17:13 < molz> hm that's weird, i just got another withdrawal fine
17:14 < tigermousr> yeah, it's clearly me. 
17:18 < molz> tigermousr, is this your node:  026eb5a131ec73d865e9b722f69d6317b2644e80d401d83070aec11e5bab0e1058
17:19 < molz> tigermousr, can you give me an invoice for 1000 satoshis let me try to see if i can pay you
17:28 < tigermousr> thats me. here is the invoice for 1000 sat. thanks for the assistance. lnbc10u1pd052vapp5ma8a4q7xn5eu6jatgnu67rhxayftdgg59x2f52cc692wtrcarj9qdqvwd68y6ttv5sscqpgv3p55y40mwt23ght25r8raeu7cpjeftff4y5w46pu35st3l2n4xkkjlgvz8htwd2qtwdgewcncezcuqcrqecjxtch3sqzgemdm6n4ucp9czar8
17:32 < molz> here's the result:  https://paste.ee/p/Nd2IF#7rW9HIrmT9iJrK2nDe4wEfOxvn2WdAWB
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17:39 < roasbeef> tigermousr: it's the operator of the site, wouldn't really worry about it unless you can get in contact w/ them 
17:44 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] ZmnSCPxj closed pull request #1388: Adapt relative weights of channel traversal costs (master...feecostbias) https://git.io/vpJE7
17:45 < tigermousr> that may be, but molz just tested also cannot send payment to me...
17:48 < molz> tigermousr, have you tried to pay/receive from another c-lightning node?
17:49 < roasbeef> tigermousr: it's a flow network, payments can only flow if there's enough avilable bandwidth, the erorr molz ran into shows along the way there isn't 
17:49 < molz> yea i guess 
18:03 < tigermousr> so, the fact that I can send payments but not receive is because there are not enough users? or I need to open more channels? not sure what I can do to make it work for me.
18:13 < roasbeef> tigermousr: from what i gather it's an issue with the website, i wouldn't really sweat it unless you can contact the owner of the site 
18:14 < tigermousr> right, but shouldn't other users be able to pay me directly? like molz, who i have a funded channel with
18:15 < rusty> tigermousr: sure, if molz has capacity in that cannel?
18:16 < molz> rusty, he opened a channel to my node, hasn't paid me so maybe i can't pay him? but I also have liquidity in other channels which i've been able to pay and receive from Coinpanic node but i don't have a channel with Coinpanic
18:17 < molz> so I thought i'd try to pay him and see
18:17 < rusty> molz: yeah, we've been talking about the idea of having a node which simply creates onchain payments for you.  Unf. it's a trusted system then, but you'd be able to easily balance channels manually that way.
18:20 < tigermousr> molz, do you want to create an invoice for me and then we can try again after that?
18:23 < molz> yea sec
18:31 < molz> rusty, roasbeef, PAID! :D
18:31 < molz> 1000 sat was too large, my fault
18:32 < molz> so i asked him in pm to give me an invoice for 20 sat, it's paid :D
18:32 < molz> thru 3 hops!
18:32 < rusty> Nice!  Big spender :)
18:33 < molz> haha :D 
18:33 < molz> here's the payment:  https://paste.ee/p/ShQgo#wlyBLo20AiFJ1W62HfFdhk435rBouU9x
18:35 < molz> what happened: he  has a channel with Coinpanic for 100k sat, so the reserv is 1000 sat, but he paid to Coinpanic 1100 sat, so now he can only be paid around 100 sat, not 1000 sat, and i could pay him thru other people's funds 
18:45 < tigermousr> would opening more channels, or funding them more, give more capacity for me to send and receive funds? what is a recommended amount to fund a channel with?
18:47 < roasbeef> ahh yeh could be the reserve molz 
18:48 < roasbeef> tigermousr: it's that we force a peer to have a certain % in their channel, and until they have a balance above that, they can't send out 
18:48 < molz> yea, i forgot about his reserve
18:50 < molz> tigermousr, you should go shopping, buy some things, and leave your channel opened.. eventually someone will route thru you or you can pay someone else or get paid by someone else because of your liquidity
19:04 < tigermousr> alright. cheers
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20:07 < StopAndDecrypt> i've been looking but can seem to find where the node/channel graph is stored,  is it in a single file?
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20:15 < roasbeef> StopAndDecrypt: it's all in the sqlite db
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20:38 < StopAndDecrypt> odd i cant locate lightningd.sqlite3 anywhere, but based on what i googled, i think exporting this graph is beyond my skillset, thanks though
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20:49 < rusty> roasbeef: actually, we keep it in a flat file, since it's discardable.  StopAndDecrypt's best bet is to use the listchannels and listnodes APIs.
20:50 < rusty> (We literally store all the gossip msgs and replay, because we're lazy...(
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21:19 < molz> rusty, when we send a payment, where is it in 'listpeers'?
21:20 < rusty> molz: it isn't...  you want listpayments I think
21:23 < molz> rusty, ah.. ok is there a place that can tell us how much we can be paid back ?
21:24 < rusty> molz: listpeers [peerid] is probably best.
21:25 < rusty> spendable_msatoshi is for your side... for their side, you need to do some math I think.
21:26 < rusty> msatoshi_total - msatoshi_to_us - their_channel_reserve_satoshis * 1000 I think.
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22:20 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] rustyrussell opened pull request #1505: features fixes (master...guilt/features-fixes) https://git.io/vp7T7
22:26 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] rustyrussell closed pull request #1494: Avoid static analyzer warning about integer wraparound (master...analyzer-warning-contents) https://git.io/vpD43
22:27 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] rustyrussell closed pull request #1495: Separate counter variable declaration from for loop statements. (master...patch3) https://git.io/vpyLQ
22:30 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] rustyrussell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vp7kL
22:30 -githubby:#c-lightning- lightning/master 3abd9ad practicalswift: wireaddr: Avoid memory corruption in fmt_wireaddr_without_port()
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22:54 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] rustyrussell closed pull request #1484: Fix build on linux-musl (master...endian) https://git.io/vpij4