--- Day changed Tue Jul 17 2018 00:42 -!- polydin [~delphi@2602:306:b8b6:b970:80c4:1e41:923e:dbaf] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:48 -!- bitonic-cjp [~bitonic-c@92-111-70-106.static.v4.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #c-lightning 00:52 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has joined #c-lightning 00:57 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:11 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #c-lightning 01:15 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:20 -!- tiagotrs [~user@i577A1986.versanet.de] has joined #c-lightning 01:20 -!- tiagotrs [~user@i577A1986.versanet.de] has quit [Changing host] 01:20 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has joined #c-lightning 01:21 -!- polydin [~delphi@2602:306:b8b6:b970:642b:403:836c:b702] has joined #c-lightning 01:25 -!- arowser [~arowser1@23.83.244.223.16clouds.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26 -!- arowser [~arowser1@93.179.99.5.16clouds.com] has joined #c-lightning 02:44 -!- antanst [~antanst@62.169.219.213] has joined #c-lightning 03:32 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] cdecker pushed 14 new commits to master: https://git.io/fN3HP 03:32 -githubby:#c-lightning- lightning/master ac4c6b1 Rusty Russell: tools/generate-wire.py: support for optional fields, with ? before typename.... 03:32 -githubby:#c-lightning- lightning/master 019ba86 Rusty Russell: gossipd: use optional fields.... 03:32 -githubby:#c-lightning- lightning/master 6c98457 Rusty Russell: per-peer seed is a 'struct secret' not a 'struct privkey'.... 03:36 -!- gabridome [571039d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.16.57.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:37 -!- SpoekplumpeN [51eca0f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.236.160.240] has joined #c-lightning 03:38 < SpoekplumpeN> Anyone know where I can find some more indepth information about the way routing transactions work. I want a great answer to why a node in the middle can't recieve funds and also refuse to send funds. A->B->C, why can't B keep the funds A sends or why can't A refuse to send funds to B once C has recieved from B 03:41 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: collection of funds goes the other way: C collects from B, and only then can B collect from A. if B stops playing at some point, either no one collects any money and they all eventually get their money back, or C gets paid, and A gets refunded, with B left out of pocket 03:42 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: (in particular, each payment step requires what's called a "payment_hash preimage" for it to actually happen. initially only C knows this, and when collecting the funds from B, C reveals it, so B knows it, and can then collect from A) 03:48 < SpoekplumpeN> How is C forced to tell B the secret (I believe it's often refered to as R?) How come he can't collect funds without revealing it? 03:52 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: yes, R 03:54 -!- suppervisor [8b3f26c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.139.63.38.201] has joined #c-lightning 03:54 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: each step sets up a bitcoin transaction, eg "here's 0.005 BTC, payable to whoever can do either (A's signature and it's been a day) or (B's signnature and reveals R)" 03:55 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: so B can only get the money when B knows R, and if B gets the money, A looks at the tx to find out what R is. 03:55 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: and if B never knows what R is, or chooses not to say, A waits a day and gets the money back 04:01 < SpoekplumpeN> How come the first signed transaction between a-b can be encrypted by R if A does not know R? Is it provided from C in the invoice? 04:02 < SpoekplumpeN> maybe encrypted by R is the wrong term? But it has to be created knowing R somehow? 04:03 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: yes, when C creates the invoice for a to pay, it includes the payment_hash, which is sha256(R) 04:06 < SpoekplumpeN> Is the timelocked transaction A-B that spends to A after a day in your example, is it ever invalidated? How does the network recognize that the transaction including R that spends to B is valid ahead of the other one? Since we don't have to settle onchain these both can be the latest valid transaction after the timelock 04:07 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: if you don't settle on chain, those transactions never go on chain 04:07 < SpoekplumpeN> I'm aware, but in the case that we both try to settle on chain (A being malicious) 04:08 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: the "day later" part stops A from settling on chain for a day. when B sends the tx to C, the timeout gets dropped (eg, to "23 hours") so that B has time to settle on chain before A can force a refund 04:11 < SpoekplumpeN> If I make this transaction as B and my channel stays open indefinately, that means the transaction into A has to be invalidated somehow, or atleast I can prove that my transaction is the real one to the network. A is no longer restrained by the timelock a week later for instance 04:11 < SpoekplumpeN> Not sure I'm explaining it well 04:11 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: ah, yes, there is a third alternative to the two i listed that allows the invalidation 04:12 < aj> SpoekplumpeN: i don't think i could describe that accurately on irc though 04:13 < aj> https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/master/03-transactions.md is the detailed explanation, that's probably too detailed 04:13 < SpoekplumpeN> You have been very helpful, thanks a bunch :) 04:13 < SpoekplumpeN> I'll read up on that link 04:13 < aj> https://medium.com/@rusty_lightning/lightning-watching-for-cheaters-93d365d0d02f might be better 04:15 < aj> answering smart questions is its own reward :) 04:18 -!- Drolmer [~Drolmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:20 -!- Drolmer [~Drolmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has joined #c-lightning 04:28 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has joined #c-lightning 04:31 -!- ziya [~ziya@91.233.116.228] has joined #c-lightning 04:33 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@050-090-083-229.res.spectrum.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:44 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has joined #c-lightning 04:59 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #c-lightning 05:22 -!- ziya [~ziya@91.233.116.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:31 -!- tiagotrs [~user@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:33 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] cdecker pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/fN3xp 05:33 -githubby:#c-lightning- lightning/master b876c60 Mark Beckwith: Modern param style for chaintopology.c, ...... 05:39 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:42 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:51 -!- ebx [~ebx@unaffiliated/ebex] has joined #c-lightning 06:18 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] SimonVrouwe opened pull request #1714: Prevent defaulting of feerate at first poll (master...exp-smoothing-feerate-estimates) https://git.io/fNsvn 06:29 -githubby:#c-lightning- [lightning] bitonic-cjp opened pull request #1715: Sendpay custom onion (master...sendpay_custom_onion) https://git.io/fNsJY 07:34 -!- suppervisor [8b3f26c9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.139.63.38.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #c-lightning 08:19 -!- grafcaps [~haroldbr@104.137.194.255] has joined #c-lightning 09:05 -!- bitonic-cjp [~bitonic-c@92-111-70-106.static.v4.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:19 -!- j8g3 [~j8g3@77-58-86-2.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:55 -!- dougsland [~douglas@c-73-234-93-65.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58 -!- RubenSomsen [uid301948@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrwplestpuhkpvyz] has joined #c-lightning 12:08 -!- tiagotrs [~user@i5E863C97.versanet.de] has 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