--- Log opened Mon Jan 14 00:00:20 2019 00:37 -!- bitonic-cjp [~bitonic-c@a80-100-203-151.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #c-lightning 00:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 00:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 00:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 00:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 01:05 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:19 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #c-lightning 01:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 01:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 01:33 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 01:33 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 01:39 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:41 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #c-lightning 01:41 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:46 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #c-lightning 02:02 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@87.101.92.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 02:08 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 02:13 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 02:13 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 02:24 -!- bitonic-cjp [~bitonic-c@a80-100-203-151.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:24 -!- bitonic-cjp [~bitonic-c@a80-100-203-151.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #c-lightning 02:58 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 03:04 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #c-lightning 03:19 < Rempentant> is it enough to backup .lightning directory in home folder to be able to restore? 03:23 -!- Rempentant [5921f648@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.33.246.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 03:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 03:28 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 03:55 < blockstream_bot> [Christian Decker, Blockstream] Bolt 4 is indeed used for every payment (even single hop payments). This reduces complexity and puts the privacy front and center. We considered having a non-onion-routed payments but decided that might be bad for overall privacy 03:56 < blockstream_bot> [Christian Decker, Blockstream] Backing up .lightning is not sufficient because you can't safely restore from a backup. If the node continues running after the backup you'll end up with an old state and the counterparty will assume you're cheating. The retaliation will result in you losing your funds 03:58 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 03:58 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 04:03 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 04:03 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 04:08 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 04:08 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 04:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 04:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 04:36 -!- keymone [~keymone@ip1f10c1a7.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 04:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 04:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 04:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 04:46 -!- keymone [~keymone@ip1f10c1a7.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #c-lightning 05:18 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 05:18 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 05:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 05:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 05:58 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 05:58 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 06:03 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 06:03 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 06:23 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@172.98.82.4] has joined #c-lightning 06:33 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 06:33 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 06:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 06:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 07:08 -!- spaced0ut [~spaced0ut@unaffiliated/spaced0ut] has joined #c-lightning 07:08 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 07:08 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 07:13 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 07:13 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 07:33 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 07:33 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 07:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 07:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 07:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 07:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 07:48 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 07:48 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 07:51 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #c-lightning 08:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 08:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 08:24 -!- bitonic-cjp [~bitonic-c@a80-100-203-151.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:28 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 08:28 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 10:00 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-180-086-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:18 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 10:18 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 10:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 10:23 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 10:33 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 10:33 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 10:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 10:38 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 10:40 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-181-141-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #c-lightning 11:01 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 11:10 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #c-lightning 11:48 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 11:48 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 11:53 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 11:53 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 12:02 < ctrlbreak> AHhhhh!!! 12:02 < ctrlbreak> I have a pegged GOSSIPD again! 12:02 < ctrlbreak> This still being looked into? 12:06 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:09 -!- CubicEarth [~CubicEart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #c-lightning 12:42 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has joined #c-lightning 13:04 -!- RubenSomsen_ [sid301948@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cgndugybjyvdgwvb] has joined #c-lightning 13:11 -!- RubenSomsen [sid301948@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rryghbuxutzdaqwh] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:11 -!- RubenSomsen_ is now known as RubenSomsen 13:31 < blockstream_bot> [Scott Olsen, Blockstream] Heyo. Anyone still need debug info for hung GOSSIPD? 13:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 13:38 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 13:41 < blockstream_bot> [Scott Olsen, Blockstream] Okay... well, I've gathered a GDB BT and have some PERF data for anyone.... if this is still a thing. Running v0.6.2-310-g55e8634 13:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 13:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 13:53 -!- Rempentant [5921f648@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.33.246.72] has joined #c-lightning 13:58 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 13:58 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 14:03 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 14:13 -!- nothingmuch [~user@62.102.148.189] has joined #c-lightning 14:45 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 14:55 < Rempentant> Thank you cdecker 15:09 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #c-lightning 15:18 < Rempentant> Just thinking about this.. Lets say a web site with porn or gambling which is illegal (maybe?) in some countries want to accept lightning payments. Im wondering about keeping the users anonymous and safe. The channels must be public so users can use them to add funds to the service ? so it will be public that my node is gambling-porn.com ? Is this a problem or not? 15:26 < nothingmuch> that site's node ID and public channels will likely be identifiable, but users would be able to route payments to it with fairly good privacy given the sphinx based network protocol 15:26 < nothingmuch> if all the nodes on the route collude to expose the user then there it's not hard for them to do that, since with HTLCs all nodes on the route have the same preimage 15:27 < nothingmuch> i'm not fully up to date on proposals to improve that but i do know it's being worked on 15:27 -!- michaelsdunn1 [~michaelsd@unaffiliated/michaelsdunn1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28 < nothingmuch> and secondly to some global adversary the same caveats of onion routed networks still applies, i.e. an adversary could insert sibyl the network and have a higher chance of seeing more of the route, or could use timing to correlate payments, etc 15:30 < nothingmuch> if the users set up aunique node, with private channels funded from fungible coins, and only use it over tor then it is likely going to be quite hard to identify them 15:43 < Rempentant> So all services running lightning will have public visible nodes and publich channels, so their lightning volume would be visible? Its possible for everyone to see the state of channels right? Its public to see how much the service is being used? 15:44 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught up with me...] 15:45 < nothingmuch> Rempentant: the state of channels is not public but can be inferred by trying to route through them, but nodes can spoof failures to add noise to that measurement in principle 15:47 < nothingmuch> net volume can be deduced by channel closures if the destination addresses can be identified, i.e. the usual blockchain analysis snake oil (but it gets a bit easier given LN node IDs are static, so if a new channel is opened after a settlement associated with the same ID that potentially gives more of a basis to work with, but mixing before funding could help) 15:48 < nothingmuch> a site can also keep several nodes but if people use it then i think it's very likely that its node IDs will become well known, but it could also maintain private channels and use those to rebalance its public channels 15:51 < Rempentant> cool, thanks 15:54 -!- spinza [~spin@155.93.246.187] has joined #c-lightning 16:28 < Rempentant> So lets say i got an old copy of my .lightning folder backup, its old state..... if i wait long enough before bringing a new c-lightning up with this old .lightning folder the channels would be closed by the other parties due to inactivity and i would have all funds? or should i restore hsm_secret into a new wallet and wait for the channels to be closed by other parties? 16:30 < nothingmuch> i believe so, though if you ever received funds on that channel then they may have taken more than their fair share (not likely given that is risky) and for channels on which you sent nothing i think there'd still be a good chance they'd be open since counterparties can't gain anything from closing those 16:32 < nothingmuch> (assuming you funded those channels) 16:32 < Rempentant> alright... 16:33 < Rempentant> risky... 16:34 < nothingmuch> on the protocol level (not sure about implementation level) i think if you recover the .lightning dir and then force all channels to a new state then you should be safe again 16:34 < nothingmuch> if you have incoming balances you should be able to route payments to yourself to do that similar to rene's script that demonstrates spontaneous payments 16:34 < nothingmuch> but i stress that i have no idea if this is actually safe as implemented 16:43 < Rempentant> in the future would watchtowers have the latest state so i could recover with just hsm_secret and sync(?) with the watchtower service? 16:56 < nothingmuch> i really don't know about the watchtower designs to answer that, sorry... but it sounds plausible from the little I do know 17:05 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3] 17:13 < molz> Rempentant, if you're not familiar with lightning, it would be best to try it out on testnet first 17:25 < Rempentant> yeah i guess... 18:03 < Rempentant> Is there an autopilot plugin yet? 18:44 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S010660e327dca171.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #c-lightning 19:01 < roasbeef> Rempentant: i wouldn't bring it back up without thinking about it and understanding the implications if it has a stale version, i think c-lightnign turned off data loss protection partially, so the other nodes may not detect you're behind and just force close their latest copy 21:29 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #c-lightning 21:30 < rusty> @George Vaccaro Thanks for backtrace, I've nailed it. 21:54 -!- spaced0ut [~spaced0ut@unaffiliated/spaced0ut] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54 < rusty> https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/pull/2268 22:40 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has left #c-lightning [] 22:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Quit: farmerwampum] 22:43 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 22:48 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has quit [Client Quit] 22:48 -!- farmerwampum [~farmerwam@162.219.178.10] has joined #c-lightning 22:57 < Rempentant> Tried to make payment, listpayments shows it as "failed", will c-lightning automatically retry this later ? 22:58 < Rempentant> I would hope not... 23:17 < Rempentant> my english is not 100% but this message got me confused if it will keep retry in background 23:17 < Rempentant> Stopped retrying during payment attempt; continue monitoring with pay or listpayments 23:48 -!- nothingmuch [~user@62.102.148.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57 -!- nothingmuch [~user@213.152.161.30] has joined #c-lightning --- Log closed Tue Jan 15 00:00:21 2019