--- Log opened Tue Jun 11 00:00:38 2019
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01:01 < t0mix> can somebody answer few questions about hsm_secret file? it is static binary data? is it good idea just to write it down on paper as a backup?
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01:30 < nibbier> t0mix: I'm no expert, but cdecker's comment yesterday hints to it: <cdecker> nibbier: yes, that's [deleting all but the hsm_secret] basically lobotomizing the node: the identity is still there, but no memory of anything
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01:39 < t0mix> in theory, if I have hsm_secret + I know all my peers I have channels open with. then I can go and ask them to close channels for me and all funds will return to my wallet. even if I have lobotomized version only.
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02:49 <@cdecker> t0mix: no, by backing up only the hsm_secret, you may recover your on-chain funds (with some exceptions we are getting rid of), but you will not be able to close channels, since you lack the entire state for those channels. You could ask your peer for the state again, however they could just tell you an old state and cheat you out of your money.
02:50 <@cdecker> t0mix: in addition even collaborating with the peer may require some CPU grinding since unique keys are used to generate channel secrets and you no longer have the state to just re-generate them
02:51 <@cdecker> TL;DR: backing up only hsm_secret will lose you money, prefer a real backup solution built on the db_query hook, or a distributed, failure resilient, filesystem like ZmnSCPxj describes on the mailing list
03:02 < t0mix> @cdecker thanks! db_query hook .. mhm. where to check mailing list?
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03:16 <@cdecker> t0mix: here's the relevant thread https://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/c-lightning/2019-May/thread.html
03:17 <@cdecker> Both options are great, we just need to implement them :-)
03:17 <@cdecker> If you're in a hurry I'd suggest using the FS based replication
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03:17 <@cdecker> I was planning to build a backup plugin with various backends, but got stuck yak shaving
03:21 < rusty> m-schmoock: Sorry for delayed review, I left a comment on https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/pull/2688 but I don't think it's critical.
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05:48 < m-schmoock> rusty: thx for the adjustment, its more correct I think. I updated the branch
05:52 < m-schmoock> lets wait for travis
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06:12 < m-schmoock> cdecker: just another small nothing, seemed to fix a occasionally rebalance fee error:  https://github.com/lightningd/plugins/pull/38  
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06:56 <@cdecker> m-schmoock: merged :-)
06:58 < m-schmoock> merci
06:58 < m-schmoock> I rebased the #2688 and test are green
06:58 < m-schmoock> ah, I see you noticed ^^
06:58 < m-schmoock> (a minute ago)
06:59 <@cdecker> Yep, my comment wasn't meant as a blocking comment, rather just a tip for the future
06:59 <@cdecker> :-)
06:59 < m-schmoock> how is your stance about the fact that we can bring the channel into an rather unusable state (by sending a second trimmed HTLC)
06:59 < m-schmoock> it does not crash anymore, but it locks up the channel, at least for payments, dunno for routings
07:00 < m-schmoock> rusty response was: "It's a choice though; we could choose not to send the final tx which would drive the channel into this state.
07:00 < m-schmoock> "
07:01 <@cdecker> If it doesn't crash anymore that's  step forward
07:01 < m-schmoock> :D
07:01 <@cdecker> Beyond that I'd need to check ^^
07:02 < m-schmoock> kk. I think I will write another test to make sure the channel is only 'locally' locked up for payments but routing should be possible
07:02 < m-schmoock> if routings do not work either, we have more serious problem
07:03 <@cdecker> Bah, we can always refuse to do something that'd result in a locked channel
07:03 <@cdecker> We are always able to err on the side of caution and just reject stuff
07:05 < m-schmoock> kk. Ill check if the problem is limited to local payments and not routings. in the first case at least thats not a big impact
07:05 < m-schmoock> second case could effectivly harm the network
07:06 < m-schmoock> btw, drain/fill plugin almost ready
07:06 < m-schmoock> quite usable already but some minor todos left
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16:42 < rusty> niftynei: around?  I'd really like to slip https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/pull/2672 if you have time for a rebase and plug that memleak, if not, did you want me to?
16:42 < rusty> s/slip/slip into 0.7.1/...
16:44 < rusty> niftynei: also, I've been playing with TLV.  Thought you had a bug, but turns out it was a thinko on my part; in the gossip-query enhancements we have the *same-named* TLV element in two different messages.  Since C has no namespaces, this means we need to prefix names, which is going to get quite ugly :(  Oh well, autogenerated code is never pretty.
16:47 <@niftynei> rusty, i'm trying to replicate the memleak locally, not having a lot of luck
16:48 < rusty> niftynei: Yeah, I did a nasty shortcut on the memleak code where you have to dig into the logs to find it.  Not v. useful for travis...
16:48 <@niftynei> doing the rebase now. these tests are so slow on my machine -- really need to remember to use multiple cores
16:48 < rusty> niftynei: heh, my build machine is fast enough that it's worth me using ssh *over Tor* to test when I'm not in my office.
16:49 <@niftynei> i'm a .. little jealous of your fancy new machine, not gonna lie
16:49 <@niftynei> does the memleak bug at least error the test for you? it shows up green on my  machine >.<
16:51 < rusty> niftynei: I bled putting it together.  Literally, those things are sharp, and it seems to be an inadvertent tradition with me assembling hardware.
16:51 < rusty> niftynei: Well, I can see the travis backtrace, let me look.
16:51 <@niftynei> i've got valgrind turned on in configure -- is there something else i might be missing to get memleak to error?
16:51 < rusty> niftynei: no, valgrind *disables* memleak detection, sorry.
16:52 < rusty> (BEcause to detect memleaks we sweep through all allocated memory, and valgrind gets quite upset!)
16:52 < rusty> But here it is:
16:52 < rusty> DEBUG:root:lightningd-1: 2019-06-05T00:58:12.248Z lightningd(11148): lightning_openingd-022d223620a359a47ff7f7ac447c85c46c923da53389221a0054c11c1e3ca31d59 chan #1:     openingd/openingd.c:610 (funder_channel_start)
16:53 < rusty> And line 610 is, ta-da:
16:53 <@niftynei> > no, valgrind *disables* memleak detection, sorry... welp
16:53 < rusty> 	funding_output_script =
16:53 < rusty> 		scriptpubkey_p2wsh(tmpctx,
16:53 < rusty> -->				   bitcoin_redeem_2of2(state,
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16:54 <@niftynei> wait i thought i switched that over to tmpctx??
16:54 < rusty> You switched the one above :)
16:54 < rusty> Or at least, if you fixed that too, you didn't push...
16:54 <@niftynei> looking
16:54 < rusty> So good news, it's trivial.
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17:30 <@niftynei> rusty do you have to turn the memleak checks on before you run the test? it's patched and pushed but trying to replicate the bug locally for good measure now
17:34 <@niftynei> ah ha, it's the 'asan' option
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17:35 <@niftynei> it's really incredible how much faster these tests run without valgrind turned on 
17:36 <@niftynei> so much for thinking it's the python slowing everything down 
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18:20 < rusty> niftynei: %ls is a new one... it was meant to be %u and dereference the pointer.  Glad clang caught it though!
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20:00 < rusty> niftynei: Urgh.  I disagree with 846bc9cbc4.  If they cancel the funding, it should fail the fund command, not succeed.  I only spotted it because you used the low-level json_stream_append() API which changed in another merge, hence compile broke on master.
21:42 < rusty> Oh, I misunderstood.... this is the cancel command.  Oops./
21:43  * rusty unreverts
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--- Log closed Wed Jun 12 00:00:39 2019