--- Log opened Sun Mar 15 00:00:22 2020
00:40 -!- vasild_ [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #c-lightning
00:43 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:43 -!- vasild_ is now known as vasild
02:02 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has joined #c-lightning
03:03 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:33 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zkjjaoqsjfattawp] has left #c-lightning []
03:33 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zkjjaoqsjfattawp] has joined #c-lightning
05:25 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:25 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #c-lightning
05:26 -!- kristapsk_ [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:37 < m-schmoock> darosior: but with validating the PoW chain, you can already have a very high amount of certainty, especially if you use multiple explorers. at least a hell lot better than leaving money on a bank or exchange ;)
05:51 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has joined #c-lightning
05:57 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #c-lightning
06:00 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:01 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #c-lightning
06:01 -!- treehug88 [~textual@pool-71-105-170-196.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #c-lightning
06:14 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #c-lightning
06:15 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:15 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #c-lightning
06:51 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:01 < fiatjaf> m-schmoock: how should I validate PoW if I don't know the difficulty?
07:03 < fiatjaf> now my plugin uses a bunch of explorers and two different rawblock providers, it checks if the block hashes match between the esplora explorer and the rawblock, it also checks if the previous block is what we expected it to be
07:33 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has joined #c-lightning
08:25 -!- Kostenko [~Kostenko@2001:8a0:729a:5c00:c3b9:b700:36f7:752c] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:34 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
09:28 < m-schmoock> fiatjaf: your plugin would need to download all blockheaders ;)
09:28 < m-schmoock> doable
09:47 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
09:49 < fiatjaf> m-schmoock: haha you're kidding me
09:50 < fiatjaf> maybe my plugin should validate all transactions too
10:00 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has joined #c-lightning
10:02 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #c-lightning
10:06 -!- gojiHmPFPN [~textual@c-73-47-220-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
10:26 -!- gojiHmPFPN [~textual@c-73-47-220-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #c-lightning
10:33 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning
10:41 -!- Kostenko [~Kostenko@2001:8a0:7288:b200:e74:49ed:a0d8:169e] has joined #c-lightning
10:45 < m-schmoock> fiatjaf: no really, your plugin could 'know' the latest valid blockhash by code, and sync blockheaders from there on
10:45 < m-schmoock> so theres no need to download all
10:45 < m-schmoock> just timestamp each release
10:45 < m-schmoock> then it will only download some headers and then one each 10mins
10:46 < fiatjaf> https://github.com/gdassori/spruned
10:46 < m-schmoock> but this way your plugin dont rely on trusting the blockexplorer, because by validating PoW you ensure that the blockexplorer guys would have to basically do a 51% attack in oder to trick you
10:47 < m-schmoock> :D
10:47 < m-schmoock> noice
10:47 < fiatjaf> yes, you're expanding too much the scope of my plugin
10:47 < m-schmoock> EU truning into socialist dictatorship... gotta code fast
10:47 < fiatjaf> in that case spruned is better
10:48 < m-schmoock> scope creep by IRC guys ^^
11:08 < darosior> fiatjaf: "what other kind of thing you're envisioning with the custom bitcoin backends feature?" => I plan to share a bitcoind for many more lightweight C-lightning wallets to connect to. Especially mobile ones (I'm writing something but I need to learn about Android and I don't have much time).
11:08 < darosior> "suddenly you appear to not like the idea of these block explorer plugins anymore" ==> I find it fun, but I never stated that I liked to use it with real funds 
11:08 < darosior> "why write them if we aren't going to use them _ever_?" ==> Hmm that's fortunately not the only usecase for the pluggable Bitcoin backend !
11:08 < darosior> "for now blockstream.info, but that will change" ==> Great, they use bitcoind. And it's OS so anyone can run their instance (that's why I called Sauron an esplora-plugin, not blockstream.info-plugin)
11:08 < darosior> "to everyone their own risk-analysis :-)" ==> 100% agree
11:08 < darosior> m-schmoock: Yes sure, I was talking about things that happened to explorers not using bitcoind as backend ;) (cf https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260595.0 for example)
11:08 < darosior> "it checks if the block hashes match between the esplora explorer and the rawblock" ==> How do you handle the "they don't match" case ? Failure ?
11:09 < fiatjaf> darosior: try the next block provider
11:10 < fiatjaf> if it fails too, then return a failure
11:10 < darosior> Yeah but how do you decide which one is the good one ?
11:10 < fiatjaf> then I believe lightningd will crash
11:10 < darosior> If they both give different block hashes
11:10 < darosior> "then I believe lightningd will crash": Yes it will
11:10 < fiatjaf> the hash of the rawblock should match the hash I've asked for
11:11 < fiatjaf> which was given to me by esplora
11:11 < darosior> Ah ok I thought you requested block hashes from different sources too ;)
11:12 < fiatjaf> I request one from a random esplora
11:12 < fiatjaf> (I have two open esplora explorers now)
11:13 < fiatjaf> (hardcoded)
11:15 < fiatjaf> when I asked "why write them if we aren't going to use them _ever_?" I meant the sauron/trustedcoin/that-other-one plugins
11:17 < fiatjaf> darosior: "share a bitcoind for many more lightweight C-lightning wallets to connect to" => wouldn't that be doable by just exposing the bitcoind HTTP RPC endpoint to the internet with nginx or something?
11:18 < darosior> fiatjaf: Sauron was just meant to be a showcase
11:20 < darosior> I won't expose my RPC to the raw and wild internet, but yeah I was thinking of a basic Django behind Nginx thing
11:20 < darosior> The hard part I'm struggling with now is starting Python plugins Android-side
11:20 < darosior> I use Kivy which is great, but a bit magic
11:30 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:39 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: roasbeef
11:47 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zkjjaoqsjfattawp] has left #c-lightning []
11:47 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zkjjaoqsjfattawp] has joined #c-lightning
11:52 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning
12:36 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: kanzure, wpaulino, fengling
12:36 -!- Netsplit over, joins: wpaulino
12:36 -!- kanzure_ [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has joined #c-lightning
12:37 -!- Netsplit over, joins: fengling
12:40 -!- vasild_ [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #c-lightning
12:44 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
12:44 -!- vasild_ is now known as vasild
12:49 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:30 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: harding, midnight, blockstream_bot, _0x0ff, nothingmuch
13:30 -!- harding_ [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe7b:78d1] has joined #c-lightning
13:30 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
13:30 -!- Netsplit over, joins: nothingmuch
13:31 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-txhnryyccoeyadae] has joined #c-lightning
13:31 -!- Netsplit over, joins: _0x0ff
13:47 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #c-lightning
13:47 -!- gojiHmPFPN [~textual@c-73-47-220-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
13:57 -!- midnight [~midnight@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has joined #c-lightning
14:04 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has joined #c-lightning
14:27 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:48 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning
14:52 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:52 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #c-lightning
14:58 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:30 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has joined #c-lightning
15:34 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
15:45 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
16:12 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has joined #c-lightning
16:17 -!- mdunnio [~mdunnio@208.59.170.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:44 -!- gojiHmPFPN [~textual@c-73-47-220-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #c-lightning
16:56 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning
17:00 -!- DeanGuss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:00 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning
17:04 -!- Dean_Guss [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:06 -!- gojiHmPFPN [~textual@c-73-47-220-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
17:14 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Quit: Bye]
17:34 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #c-lightning
17:49 -!- kanzure_ is now known as kanzure
17:54 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined #c-lightning
18:03 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #c-lightning
19:09 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:17 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:58 -!- gojiHmPFPN [~textual@c-73-47-220-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #c-lightning
20:05 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-txhnryyccoeyadae] has left #c-lightning []
20:05 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-txhnryyccoeyadae] has joined #c-lightning
20:18 -!- gojiHmPFPN [~textual@c-73-47-220-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
20:54 -!- gojiHmPFPN [~textual@c-73-47-220-190.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #c-lightning
21:03 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined #c-lightning
21:12 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:13 -!- bitdex [~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex] has joined #c-lightning
--- Log closed Mon Mar 16 00:00:24 2020