--- Log opened Tue Aug 04 00:00:40 2020
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02:48 <@cdecker> MrHash if you'd like to opt-out of MPP support you can start with `lightningd --disable-mpp` and we'll not split the payment at all
02:48 < zmnscpxj__> Why tho? bugs?
02:49 <@cdecker> Yep, it's an escape hatch that we added to avoid breaking everybody if MPP goes crazy
02:50 < zmnscpxj__> Any new MPP bugs?
02:50 <@cdecker> Not so far, seems we caught most of them during testing
02:51 < zmnscpxj__> good good
02:52 <@cdecker> It was a huge rewrite, and I added `--disable-mpp` mostly for my own sake so we have two fallback positions: `legacypay` and `pay` with MPP disabled
03:10 < darosior> zmnscpxj__: re "FWIW even a tx-broadcasting fullnode will be asking all its peers for all txes in the peer mempool anyway, and thus trusting them to not lie about their mempools" ==> no, it's completely different: a bip158 client cannot **maintain** a mempool of valid-to-the-tip-and-standardness transactions, or it basically needs to donwload the
03:10 < darosior> whole blocks and always request transactions. So basically reimplement bitcoind's mempool and fee estimator logic... (would actually be a "-txsonly" instead of the "-blocksonly" :D).
03:10 < darosior> Answered here to not derail the thread.
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03:15 < zmnscpxj__> hmmmm, basically the difference is that a fullnode can get the mempool of a peer fullnode and filter out invalid txes
03:16 < zmnscpxj__> while a BIP158 SPV node will get random txes from the mempool of a peer, and possibly get some that spend completely nonexistent txouts, and have ridiculous fees
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03:16 < zmnscpxj__> something like that?
03:17 < zmnscpxj__> well the alternative is trusting some source of mempool data.... bleah
03:17 < zmnscpxj__> Just implement stratum lolz
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03:21 < darosior> ^^
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14:13 < roasbeef> congrats on y'all's latest release! if i'm reading the blog post correctly, y'all's mpp impl uses 10k sats as it's _max_ split? 
14:13 < roasbeef> have y'all run into issues w.r.t exhausting available commitment space for large, or multiple concurrent payments? 
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18:43 < zmnscpxj__> I believe we cap out the number of splits to avoid a single payment capping out commitment space, not sure tho (thought I saw a commit about it)
18:43 < zmnscpxj__> might not work for multiple *concurrent* payouts tho
18:43 < zmnscpxj__> or I might be misremembering
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19:30 < rusty> zmnscpxj__: good q about concurrent payments!  cdecker would know...
19:31 < zmnscpxj__> we *could* just serialize payments tho LOL
19:32 < rusty> zmnscpxj__: "GO SLOWER!" :)
19:32 < zmnscpxj__> I mean consider that we need to allocate resources (outgoing capacity) between payments
19:32 < zmnscpxj__> we probably need a round-robin outgoing-channel selector that works across all payments, not just sub-payments of a payment
19:35 < rusty> zmnscpxj__: the new random router has a "can I use this channel?" cb, with the intent that would be used for enhanced info like this.
19:36 < zmnscpxj__> *callback*? random router is not a command?
19:36 < zmnscpxj__> I mean we could make it into a command by giving a set of local channels to use
19:36 < zmnscpxj__> which we can emulate via `getroute` `excludes`
19:38 < rusty> I can see `pay` getting increasingly sophisticated with the channel information it builds up, so I wanted the flexibility.
19:38 < zmnscpxj__> or just start the route finder at the peer instead of self
19:42 < zmnscpxj__> I think a round-robin of the local channels is good enough low-hanging fruit; it also helps with path diversity in the multipath
19:43 < zmnscpxj__> Ideally we have some kind of round-robin up to two hops out from us for path diversity, and if we shuffle the channels we get some amount of route randomization "for free" as well
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 05 00:00:40 2020