--- Log opened Fri Oct 30 00:00:02 2020 00:19 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined #c-lightning 01:00 -!- liberliver [~Thunderbi@144.49.211.130.bc.googleusercontent.com] has joined #c-lightning 02:04 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-94.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:46 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:48 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.133] has joined #c-lightning 02:59 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:08 -!- vasild_ [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #c-lightning 03:11 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11 -!- vasild_ is now known as vasild 03:55 <@cdecker> Ademan it depends on your risk tolerance I'd say. In normal operation it's quite safe to use on mainnet, but if you plan to build things on top of lightning then testnet is advisable. Keep in mind though that testnet is tiny and may not be representative 04:27 < aj> *cough*signet*cough* 04:51 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #c-lightning 04:53 -!- reallll is now known as belcher 04:55 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:20 -!- ctrlbreak_MAD [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20 -!- ctrlbreak_MAD [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has joined #c-lightning 07:08 -!- jasan [~jasan@adsl-dyn197.91-127-246.t-com.sk] has joined #c-lightning 07:08 < jasan> Have a nice wekend and see you on Monday! 07:08 < jasan> s/wek/week/ 07:08 < m-schmoock> jasan: same to you 07:09 < m-schmoock> currently refining darosior 's feeadjuster :D 07:18 < jasan> thanks 07:18 -!- jasan [~jasan@adsl-dyn197.91-127-246.t-com.sk] has quit [Quit: Have a nice weekend!] 07:33 < darosior> Hehe i didn't forget m-schmoock :) 07:33 < darosior> Just prioritasing the descriptor dump for hsmtool before the release 07:34 < darosior> Next: add all the stuff i said i'd add to feeadjuster 07:34 < m-schmoock> darosior: I will add a imbalance limiter that defaults to 50/50 (meaning turned off by default). Also I fix some minor issues 07:35 < m-schmoock> Will notice you for review... 07:35 < darosior> Sure 07:37 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.162.99] has joined #c-lightning 07:39 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@static-77-88-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@static-77-88-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net] has joined #c-lightning 07:42 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-126.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #c-lightning 08:10 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has left #c-lightning [] 08:10 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has joined #c-lightning 08:42 < m-schmoock> cdecker: in the github plugin repo the Travis link still leads first to the stupid summary page and not to travis build directly. Can this be fixed like in the main repo? 08:42 < m-schmoock> thx for the review on 4126 ;) 08:43 <@cdecker> I'll see what I can do about the README.md link, but the commit status is unlikely that I can do much 08:43 < m-schmoock> why does it work for the other repo ? 08:43 < m-schmoock> the readme is not important. It just annoys me to search for the correct link on the intermediate page ;) 08:44 < m-schmoock> if theres a good reason for it, so be it... 08:52 < m-schmoock> I remember I asked that in the past... sry for dup ^^ 09:01 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-126.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:15 < Ademan> cdecker: thanks, what's the minimum channel size? I'd be pretty comfortable risking a handful of channels ~10 USD each 09:34 <@niftynei> if you're just looking to play around with a few nodes locally, the contrib/startup_regtest.sh lets you easily startup a few regtest nodes locally to play with 09:35 <@niftynei> something like `source contrib/startup_regtest.sh && start_ln 3` will start up 3 nodes on regtest 09:36 <@niftynei> bt-cli is the local bitcoind instance they all listen to, so you can generate blocks to get channels to open, send funds to nodes etc 09:37 <@niftynei> then when you're done, shut it all down with `stop_ln` 09:37 <@niftynei> admittedly, not as much fun as a Real World node though :P 09:37 <@niftynei> (sorry, i'm not sure what the minimum channel size is, maybe start with trying a 10k sat channel open?) 09:38 <@niftynei> if you're opening a channel on mainnet, you'll probably want to set your feerate manually, since the feerates right now are pretty high 09:38 <@niftynei> you can check what the default is with `lightning-cli feerate perkw` 09:39 <@niftynei> my mainnet node's showing a default opening feerate of `"opening": 67441,` 09:40 <@niftynei> which is ... (67441 * 4 / 1000) ~= 270 sats/byte. vaaary high! 09:41 < az0re> Well, the mempool is still over 70MB 09:42 < az0re> Fees are just very high right now 09:42 <@niftynei> yah, this is true 09:42 <@niftynei> do you *needs* to open a channel *right now* is the Real Question? 09:42 < az0re> Current mempool histogram: 09:42 < az0re> [(483, 100043), (362, 111236), (334, 122039), (306, 136980), (294, 150857), (289, 176522), (285, 177467), (283, 195807), (281, 404430), (280, 169753), (279, 124356), (273, 288411), (269, 409854), (265, 277671), (259, 338570), (251, 425816), (238, 475117), (214, 485817), (191, 554097), (167, 606434), (154, 739980), (143, 687630), (122, 811423), (106, 1042872), (100, 939202), (78, 1018963), (61, 1445376), (60, 1208149), (55, 1419586), (52, 09:42 < az0re> 1691669), (50, 1632799), (43, 1870712), (37, 2089395), (31, 2714540), (29, 2143925), (23, 3123043), (19, 3713406), (15, 2468830), (10, 7530653), (9, 627996), (5, 4241451), (3, 7567723), (2, 7185633), (1, 8693571)] 09:42 < az0re> 270 looks reasonable to me 09:43 <@niftynei> if not, sending an open channel tx with a lower feerate should get in ...eventually 09:43 <@niftynei> yes of course, it's reasonable for opening a channel *now* 09:43 < az0re> Right 09:44 < az0re> I always set my feerate manually 09:44 < az0re> And I usually wait for a low-fee period 09:44 <@niftynei> oh, you don't say :P 09:44 < az0re> :) 09:44 < az0re> BTW 09:44 < az0re> One of my channels suddenly went into AWAITING_UNILATERAL 09:45 < az0re> with "CHANNELD_NORMAL:update_fee 3032 outside range 4085-xxxxxx" 09:45 < az0re> wtf m8 09:45 <@niftynei> wtf indeed 09:46 < az0re> Any advice to figure out what happened? 09:46 <@niftynei> seems like c-lightning's feerate floor went above what your peer decided the floor was 09:46 < az0re> Any debug info I can collect? 09:46 < az0re> can I manually reset it somehow so it goes back to CHANNELD_NORMAL? 09:47 < az0re> I'm pretty sure it's just an honest bug, no need to close a good channel for it... 09:47 <@niftynei> here's the code that got triggered https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/blob/master/channeld/channeld.c#L742-L753 09:47 <@niftynei> "triggered" loll 09:48 <@niftynei> do we show if that channel's using opt_anchor_outputs? 09:48 <@niftynei> out of curiosity 09:48 < az0re> How can I check? 09:50 -!- zmnscpxj_ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined #c-lightning 09:50 < az0re> I don't see anything in `listchannels` output 09:50 <@niftynei> the feerate min comes from here, btw https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/blob/master/lightningd/chaintopology.c#L967-L996 09:50 <@niftynei> is there a "features" listed on the listpeers? 09:51 < az0re> I also don't see anything relevant on `listpeers` 09:51 <@niftynei> you should have a "features" tho, no? 09:51 < az0re> just option_static_remotekey 09:51 <@niftynei> ah ok. then probably not 09:51 < az0re> Thanks for the source code pointers BTW 09:52 -!- zmnscpxj [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52 < az0re> What's the problem with a feerate floor too low? 09:52 < az0re> Can I just remove the call to `peer_failed`? 09:52 * az0re cocks his footgun 09:53 <@niftynei> i don't think it would matter but it's *possible* the remote node is doing Fancy Things with their feerate if that channel's using anchor outputs, but this is 100% speculation so please don't quote me here 09:54 <@niftynei> lmao 09:54 <@niftynei> yeah, sure, go crazy 09:54 < az0re> So, https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/blob/master/lightningd/chaintopology.c#L974 says it's to ensure the tx will relay 09:54 <@niftynei> yes, that's correct 09:54 < az0re> So shouldn't this be a static value, basically at least 1sat/vbyte? 09:55 <@niftynei> since `update_fee` changes the (unilateral) commitment tx's feerate, there's a possibility that they'd lowball the feerate and then you can't get your commitment tx mined in a timely manner and htlcs timeout etc and mayhem ensues 09:55 <@niftynei> when you say "shouldn't this" what do you mean by "this"? 09:55 < az0re> the feerate floor, I mean 09:56 <@niftynei> that's not really a great idea in a pre-anchors world 09:56 < az0re> why all this fancy `try_get_feerate(ld->topology, ...` 09:56 <@niftynei> post-anchors, that's precisely what's been proposed 09:56 < az0re> So yet again I learn I really need to fucking read about anchor commitments or whatever 09:57 <@niftynei> i mean, anchor outputs is pretty straight forward 09:57 <@niftynei> the general idea is that two new outputs are added to every commitment tx 09:57 <@niftynei> one for me (local peer), one for you (remote peer) 09:57 < az0re> okie dokie 09:57 < az0re> I'm with you so far 09:58 <@niftynei> if you need to get a commitment tx mined, you CPFP that new 'anchor' output 09:58 -!- ghost43_ [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58 <@niftynei> and use the child tx to set the feerate for the two txs 09:58 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #c-lightning 09:58 < az0re> These outputs get how many sats? 09:58 <@niftynei> 330sats each 09:58 < az0re> basically dust limit 09:58 < az0re> OK 09:58 <@niftynei> so the base 'fee' cost of a commitment tx goes up 09:58 < az0re> That makes sense 09:59 <@niftynei> at the end of the day the *are* pricier than non-anchor outputs commitment txs 09:59 < az0re> Yeah but in practice I'd way rather pay 660 sats that the 20k or 30k I've been forced to pay before 09:59 <@niftynei> no matter how you slice it, there's more bytes going on chain therefore more fees 09:59 <@niftynei> but! yeah you pay extra baserate for more flexibility 09:59 < az0re> s/that the/than the/ 09:59 <@niftynei> and, in theory, update_feerate can go away eventually 10:00 <@niftynei> though that's been a topic of some debate 10:00 < az0re> So BTW is it possible for me to shut down lightningd, open some database manually with sqlite3, and change that channel state to CHANNELD_NORMAL? 10:00 <@niftynei> i mean, i'm pretty sure your node should have published its commitment tx 10:00 < az0re> Would that do what I expect (resume channel operation)? 10:00 <@niftynei> that's what AWAITING_UNILATERAL means iiuc 10:00 < az0re> Aw fuck 10:01 < az0re> I thought it meant I was awaiting a unilateral close from my peer 10:01 <@niftynei> have you check the blockchain for the scratch_txid? should be listed in listpeers 10:01 < az0re> No but that makes more sense 10:01 <@niftynei> i dont think it's waiting for your peer, i'm pretty sure it means 'waiting for unilateral to mine'? 10:01 < az0re> Yeah it's probably just stuck at the bottom of the mempool 10:02 < az0re> (I hope it's at the bottom lol) 10:03 <@niftynei> https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/blob/master/lightningd/channel.c#L469-L474 10:03 <@niftynei> notice how we do `drop_to_chain` right before we set it to `AWAITING_UNILATERAL` 10:04 < az0re> Just checked. Yup it's in the mempool. At least the feerate is not too bad :) 10:04 <@niftynei> ok cool. yeah, we move to FUNDING_SPEND_SEEN when it gets mined 10:05 < az0re> I see now, yeah, I didn't track the calls through from `peer_failed()` to `channel_fail_permanent()` 10:05 < m-schmoock> darosior: https://github.com/lightningd/plugins/pull/153 10:06 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #c-lightning 10:07 < az0re> and I also didn't pay attention to channeld/channel.c#L759 :) 10:07 < az0re> errr L747 10:13 <@niftynei> https://media.giphy.com/media/83QtfwKWdmSEo/giphy.gif 10:21 < darosior> m-schmoock: yeah yeah i saw it 10:21 < darosior> No time rn 10:21 < darosior> But will review soon ™️ 10:44 -!- liberliver [~Thunderbi@144.49.211.130.bc.googleusercontent.com] has quit [Quit: liberliver] 11:18 -!- zmnscpxj_ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26 -!- alko89 [~alko89@unaffiliated/alko89] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in] 11:27 -!- alko89 [~alko89@unaffiliated/alko89] has joined #c-lightning 11:29 -!- polydin [~george@136.49.254.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:01 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-118.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #c-lightning 12:01 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2a84:e3c0:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:14 -!- ctrlbreak_MAD [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14 -!- ctrlbreak_MAD [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has joined #c-lightning 12:27 -!- ctrlbreak_MAD [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27 -!- ctrlbreak_MAD [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has joined #c-lightning 12:56 < Ademan> niftynei: thanks! yeah I'd like to actually get on mainnet, but spinning up some local nodes doesn't sound like a bad idea 12:58 < Ademan> bbl 12:58 -!- Ademan [~ademan@47.185.88.223] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:23 -!- Iknewthat [1882832e@c-24-130-131-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #c-lightning 14:39 -!- mrostecki [~mrostecki@gateway/tor-sasl/mrostecki] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #c-lightning 14:58 -!- mrostecki [~mrostecki@gateway/tor-sasl/mrostecki] has joined #c-lightning 15:08 -!- vasild_ [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #c-lightning 15:10 -!- Iknewthat [1882832e@c-24-130-131-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:11 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11 -!- vasild_ is now known as vasild 15:19 < HelloShitty> Eveining 15:20 < HelloShitty> darosior: niftynei: az0re:, did any of you opened a channel to my node? 15:20 <@niftynei> i don't believe i did 15:20 < HelloShitty> I'm asling you three because it's the only ones I've consistently been chatting with latelly 15:21 < HelloShitty> and I have a channel opened to me and I have no idea who's node is that 15:26 -!- az0re [~az0re@gateway/tor-sasl/az0re] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39 < HelloShitty> niftynei: what happens if I try to close a channel with a node which is disconnected? 15:40 <@niftynei> check the `close` command man page? 15:41 < HelloShitty> ok, thanks 15:41 <@niftynei> the `unilateraltimeout` bit is what you're asking about 15:41 < HelloShitty> thanks for guiding instead of answering straight forward 15:41 < HelloShitty> And I really mean it 15:42 < HelloShitty> Not using sarcasm 15:42 < HelloShitty> :) 15:43 < HelloShitty> 2 days 16:23 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has left #c-lightning [] 16:23 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has joined #c-lightning 16:43 -!- zmnscpxj_ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined #c-lightning 16:44 -!- az0re [~az0re@gateway/tor-sasl/az0re] has joined #c-lightning 16:44 < az0re> HelloShitty: not me 16:44 < HelloShitty> ok 16:45 < HelloShitty> Some mistery and nice guy decided to open a channel with me 16:45 < HelloShitty> of 600k sats 16:45 < az0re> Cool 16:46 < az0re> Now is not a great time to open channels so I don't really understand why someone would do that 16:46 < az0re> Especially with only 600ksat capacity 16:47 < az0re> But hey, free for you :) 16:47 < zmnscpxj_> automated system? experiment? 16:47 < az0re> My bet is on the latter 16:47 < az0re> But who knows 16:48 < zmnscpxj_> (CLBOSS would do that if most of your capacity is onchain even at high-fee times, but will usually hold off until low-fee period) 16:55 < HelloShitty> Who's CLBOSS? 16:55 < HelloShitty> Are you talking about the open channel I have? 16:55 < zmnscpxj_> https://github.com/ZmnSCPxj/clboss 16:55 < zmnscpxj_> yes 17:08 < HelloShitty> hum, I don't have that installed 17:09 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09 < zmnscpxj_> yes, just tangential mention 17:09 < HelloShitty> ok 17:09 < zmnscpxj_> some people have other automated systems 17:09 < HelloShitty> It might be someone from bitcointalk 17:09 < zmnscpxj_> I believe m-schmoock 17:09 < HelloShitty> ah ok 17:10 < HelloShitty> If you know his node ID I can give you tje ID of the node that opened the channel with me and check if it's him 17:11 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning 17:12 < zmnscpxj_> not sure 17:12 < zmnscpxj_> and others may be running such systems 17:12 < HelloShitty> ok 17:34 -!- mrostecki [~mrostecki@gateway/tor-sasl/mrostecki] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28 -!- zmnscpxj_ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28 -!- zmnscpxj_ [~zmnscpxj@gateway/tor-sasl/zmnscpxj] has joined #c-lightning 19:48 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #c-lightning 19:51 -!- felixweis [sid154231@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-obqpsjwlqqjjaomn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52 -!- felixweis [sid154231@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vitkynaxykoqgxgj] has joined #c-lightning 21:06 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-118.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:08 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25 -!- masterdonx2 [~masterdon@45.9.249.246] has joined #c-lightning 23:25 -!- MasterdonX [~masterdon@45.9.249.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] --- Log closed Sat Oct 31 00:00:03 2020