--- Day changed Mon Aug 22 2016 00:59 -!- fqtw [~me@x590cffd2.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #joinmarket 00:59 -!- fqtw_ [~me@x590d121c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17 -!- Giszmo [~leo@250.red-213-97-251.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #joinmarket 01:33 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] before 0.2.0 goes live, could we also change that the maker's fee contribution is no more interpreted as a fixed amount of satoshi a maker contributes, but instead re-define it as "sats/kb this maker will pay for his contributed UTXOs" ? 01:33 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] No need to change code for this right now, just as intention for the future to make the fee contribution thing useful again 01:43 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 01:43 < adlai> AlexCato: that's a tricky approach, as it opens up makers to losing money on mere participation if another maker spams too many inputs. for an alternative see https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/issues/120 01:45 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] thought about that, that's why i carefully worded this "pay for his contributed UTXOs". Only adds for his own :) 01:46 < adlai> ah hm. i still think the approach in that issue is better... removes the "degree of freedom" when figuring out how an offer behaves 01:46 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] but tbh, i'm fine with any approach. Probably just is a good idea to include any of the more advanced ideas if there's a protocol change anyways 01:47 < adlai> NO 01:47 < adlai> shouting is justified. that is not "just a good idea", that's how you end up with Second System Effect 01:47 < adlai> The second-system effect is the tendency of small, elegant, and successful systems to have elephantine, feature-laden monstrosities as their successors due to ... 01:47 < adlai> not that the current joinmarket is small, or elegant, but i think you can sense my fear by now. 01:49 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] and as said, i dont want it to be coded, just reflect it in the documentation that this is about to change. Its already hinted at that the current fees might be deprecated, I'd update it to be more definite 01:50 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] problem with the fee thing is, in itsself it doesnt justify another protocol change 01:50 < adlai> drop the subjunctive, and put up a PR. 02:16 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] alright, after reading through the thread and thinking some more: all of the newer, suggested fee contribution schemes require a protocol change. Since I agree that things should be kept easy and stopping snoop attacks is clearly more important for now, the protocol change should not include changing the tx fee model. There also will be even more 02:16 < JM-IRCRelay> complications in the future, because 02:17 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] with current 0.2 UTXO commitments, re-negotiating with different makers because of fees will be more complex, as their commitments could be blacklisted before they find an acceptable offer 02:26 -!- Giszmo [~leo@250.red-213-97-251.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:09 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09 -!- coins123_ [~coins123@ip-244-225.sn1.clouditalia.com] has joined #joinmarket 03:09 -!- coins123_ [~coins123@ip-244-225.sn1.clouditalia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14 < waxwing> i think this is a big deal (indeed, it has been for the past year, but it just hasn't been done yet). we can switch in whatever we decide with a new ordertype if we don't want to break compatibility. 03:14 < waxwing> technically current 0.2.0 can run in the live pit now, since it has new ordertypes, only tricky point is whether we update the topic -> protocol update warning messages. 03:18 -!- Giszmo [~leo@190.red-88-12-21.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #joinmarket 03:25 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 03:26 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:46 < waxwing> anyone have any other ideas for Tor-supporting IRC servers, let me know (OFTC is now no good in case you missed it) 04:29 < nkuttler> what happened to oftc? 04:29 < waxwing> i just know you can't connect over Tor now, one might reasonably presume this will not be the case forever :) 04:31 < waxwing> quote: _o< and ya oftc has disallowed tor connections for like a week now >o_ <-- i found out by trial and error yesterday, can connect cgan but not oftc 04:33 < opal> _o< h >o_ 04:34 < opal> _o< if #tor wasnt hosted on oftc, i would bet oftc would block tor completely >o_ 04:36 < nkuttler> :| 04:37 < opal> _o< maybe my ducks should have tails ._o< >o_ 04:37 < opal> _o< didnt put much thought >o_ 04:52 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #joinmarket 05:17 < waxwing> pretty sure invalid txid will crash blockr bot since it assumes "data" field return in json is a dict containing 'tx' key 05:17 < waxwing> (for query_utxo_set). not sure on Core will check 05:19 < waxwing> no Core seems to be fine 05:21 < waxwing> another tumbler run went OK on testnet. 05:55 < waxwing> one thought that i never pursued far but seems quite useful is: yg bots reconnect regularly (randomly); in a naive attack model this forces a lot more commitment usage. haven't thought through in much detail though. 05:58 < waxwing> it's kind of counter to (opposite to?) the thought that re-announcement is bad though... :) confusing. 06:26 -!- ratoder [~ratoder@static.111.19.201.138.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26 -!- ratoder [~ratoder@static.111.19.201.138.clients.your-server.de] has joined #joinmarket 07:02 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] as last preparations before i'm gone a few weeks, tried to sweep one testnet-wallet into one of my other testnet-bots. The sendpayment.py seemed to also use my other, own bot as maker; but there seems to be an error of some kind. The yg-bot complained after being in the middle of the join: 07:02 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] [DEBUG] < [AlexCato] [DEBUG] message not a cmd 07:02 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] it then timed out. Sendpayment chose another maker. That worked 07:03 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] will make logs available in a moment 07:05 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] Logs from the YG with the "message not a cmd" error: 07:05 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] http://pastebin.com/REwJTis1 07:09 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] Logs from the taker's side (sendpayment.py): http://pastebin.com/qvVwy9Te 08:11 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:20 -!- fqtw_ [~me@x4db05b04.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #joinmarket 08:23 -!- fqtw [~me@x590cffd2.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:43 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #joinmarket 09:02 -!- Giszmo [~leo@190.red-88-12-21.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:04 -!- berndj-blackout [~berndj@197.242.93.84] has joined #joinmarket 09:04 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.242.93.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08 -!- berndj-blackout is now known as berndj 09:11 < waxwing> alexcato: thanks, looking 09:16 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:17 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #joinmarket 09:24 < waxwing> tricky one. my best guess right now is: somehow one of the connections dropped during the sending of a message. if that is the case, it's "expected" in the sense that, dynamically switching channels is expected to fail if the connection drops during the sending of one message. 09:24 < waxwing> fwiw i have not seen this across by now ~ 100 transactions with the various makers, not that that proves anything. 09:26 < waxwing> hmm, i'm really not sure at all, it doesn't *quite* fit that I think. 09:35 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yeah, i dont think this is anything serious; just a coincidence. I've made 5 sendpayments in total, this was the first one. The other 4 went through without any problems 09:39 -!- shotwild [~shotwild@2a04:1980:3100:1aab:e61d:2dff:fe29:fc01] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:40 -!- shotwild [~shotwild@185.21.217.58] has joined #joinmarket 09:59 -!- fqtw_ [~me@x4db05b04.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:16 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:17 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #joinmarket 14:49 -!- azertie [~azertie@unaffiliated/azertie] has joined #joinmarket 14:50 -!- azertie [~azertie@unaffiliated/azertie] has left #joinmarket [] 16:33 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 17:55 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:01 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azwjhillckqscrtb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:24 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #joinmarket 22:39 -!- molz [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #joinmarket 22:43 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:25 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ulpilhddljhqkbgl] has joined #joinmarket