--- Day changed Wed Jul 12 2017 01:33 -!- takamatsu [takamatsu@nat/redhat/x-xgwbcyqmqlffzxdm] has joined #joinmarket 04:53 -!- takamatsu [takamatsu@nat/redhat/x-xgwbcyqmqlffzxdm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16 -!- CtrlC [~CtrlC@unaffiliated/ctrlc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:22 -!- beIcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 05:23 -!- belcher_ [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:24 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:40 -!- iinaj_ [sid110431@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fpunelnfgsiaqzat] has joined #joinmarket 05:41 -!- Pilfers [Pillfersr@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-lndbeasiptxaoztd] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:41 -!- iinaj [sid110431@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kongwpppidoydtxn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:41 -!- iinaj_ is now known as iinaj 05:45 -!- Pilfers [Pillfersr@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-qbroiwpvwcftrpzb] has joined #joinmarket 05:52 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 06:08 -!- Eleazar2 [~Eleazar@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #joinmarket 08:24 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 09:19 < waxwing> in the discussion a day or two back about segwit, i forgot the main reason i'd originally conceived it as a partition (i.e. all segwit or all not-segwit in individual transactions), which is the mix of p2pkh with p2sh/p2wpkh in the same transaction is pretty much a no-no considering it could accidentally link coins. 09:19 < waxwing> so i'd always envisaged it that swreloffer/swabsoffer can only be a group of segwit enabled wallets joining together. 09:20 < belcher> oh yeah fair point, no crossover 09:20 < waxwing> that was the line of thinking that made me think, we just have to have 2 different types of wallet and not attempt to mix, albeit it'd be very convenient 09:20 < belcher> although 09:20 < belcher> the inputs can already be collected together most of the time 09:20 < belcher> as long as all the output addresses are always segwit its still improving privacy 09:21 < waxwing> yeah. this'd require though that everyone involved wants to at least send out to segwit. it all seems a bit complex. 09:21 < belcher> yep 09:22 < waxwing> i got a bit distracted with other things and haven't done anything really yet this week :) btw i remembered this gist: https://gist.github.com/AdamISZ/ba7794c801b339265fc6efeeed1684be 09:22 < waxwing> i'm still debating whether bip44 should be done. maybe. 09:23 < waxwing> i started looking at wallets then got annoyed because copay is great, you can use it with testnet, but it's using 0.12.1 servers :( 09:23 < waxwing> samourai uses bip44, plus a few others, there's a list on the bip, don't know if it's current 09:24 < waxwing> trezor and ledger both do 09:24 < waxwing> i'll start working up some bip44 tests unless you think it's a bad idea belcher 09:25 < belcher> bip44 seems a good idea to me, might help with being able to use the same seed for other wallets 09:25 < waxwing> ah right i forgot. if do that, need to switch to bip39 seeds too otherwise it'd be much less useful 09:25 < belcher> ok 09:25 < waxwing> or, hmm, is that true? i guess in practice it mostly is. 09:25 < waxwing> users don't interact with master private keys eh 09:26 < belcher> i suppose the segwit and bip44/39 can happen at the same time so people always know segwit = bip44/39 09:27 < belcher> what about the names 'swrelorder' 'swabsorder', since in 2 years everyone will use segwit for everything so the 'sw' prefix might seem odd 09:27 < waxwing> belcher: yeah it crossed my mind, but didn't seem too big of a deal 09:27 < belcher> inb4 swschnorrmastreloffer 09:27 < waxwing> also there could still be people using non-segwit for a while, and that'd be fine too. 09:27 < waxwing> heh 09:29 < belcher> how do fee rates work in a segwit world actually? 09:29 < belcher> is it satoshi-per-weight instaed of per-byte 09:29 < waxwing> yeah 09:29 < waxwing> i noted it at the bottom of that gist 09:30 < waxwing> but, hmm, is there any change in estimatefee in the RPC, i guess that's the Q 09:37 < waxwing> wow typing "mnemonic" really disturbs my fingers 09:39 < arubi> heh, most of the letters are on the right side of the keyboard, weird 09:40 < waxwing> i've always been a touch-typer, but typing 'mn' just feels dead wrong 09:40 < waxwing> well, at the beginning of a word... 09:41 < belcher> i remember seeing an entire paragraph that you type using only your left hand on a qwerty keyboard 09:41 < belcher> it was making the case for the dvorak keyboard layout 09:42 < arubi> I wonder if vim\tmux is too different on dvorak :) 09:44 < arubi> oh man the W is completely off 09:46 < belcher> the idea for them is you configure those bindings to be something else 09:46 < belcher> i learned dvorak a few years ago but it doesnt seem worth it unless you actually type a lot like a typist, also whenever you go to a new office or use a new computer you're back to qwerty 09:47 < waxwing> qwerty is worse is better 09:49 < belcher> its just network effects 09:49 < belcher> theres nothing about getting it developed faster 09:51 < waxwing> yes, right 11:06 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 12:37 -!- zxccxz [6dc7e262@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.199.226.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:50 < waxwing> so in bip39 you go entropy->mnemonic->seed (via pbkdf2), so .. i think the 'encrypted_seed' field should become the encrypted entropy, so that you can recover the mnemonic from that data. current algo is a direct seed<->mnemonic 2-way function. 13:00 < belcher> ok 13:00 < belcher> theres also a passphrase option " 13:00 < belcher> A user may decide to protect their mnemonic with a passphrase. If a passphrase is not present, an empty string "" is used instead. " 13:01 < belcher> you have it as a 13th or 14th word 13:01 < belcher> either write it along with your mnemonic or dont and it becomes a two-factor mnemonic 13:03 < waxwing> belcher: oh yeah, np with that, it's the fact that mnemonic->seed is one way, it's a bit different 13:04 < belcher> hmm so how does electrum display the seed when you ask for it 13:04 < belcher> maybe it saves it separately 13:04 < waxwing> although it's another interesting point: currently our password is used for the encryption for persistence 13:04 < waxwing> belcher: well but that's what i'm saying, electrum doesn't use bip39 but rather a 2 way mnemonic-seed function 13:05 < belcher> ahh ok 13:08 < waxwing> there seems to be really something wrong when you have to write functions like this: https://github.com/bitpay/bitcore-mnemonic/blob/master/bitcore-mnemonic.js#L766-L789 13:11 < belcher> javascript 13:43 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:46 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 14:06 -!- zxccxz [6dc7e262@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.199.226.98] has joined #joinmarket 15:32 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:32 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #joinmarket 16:05 -!- raedah [~raedah@71.19.252.32] has joined #joinmarket 17:03 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.9.19.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42 -!- raedah [~raedah@71.19.252.32] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:16 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-225-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #joinmarket 22:55 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-225-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55 -!- ananteris [~user@unaffiliated/ananteris] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-193-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #joinmarket 23:52 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-193-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:53 -!- takamatsu [~takamatsu@unaffiliated/takamatsu] has joined #joinmarket