--- Day changed Wed Sep 27 2017
00:05 < trotski2000> waxwing: nice - I will go for joinmarket clientserver then. I was just worried it might have lower liquidity
00:07 < adlai> trotski2000: it currently has both lower liquidity and lower demand, remains to be seen how that'll balance out over time
00:08 < adlai> if you have enough coins, it can't hurt to run both and see for yourself
00:08 < adlai> actually "lower liquidity" might not be quite right, a more defensible statement is "fewer liquidity providers"
00:10 < adlai> waxwing: in other ob-watcher weirdnesses - ?scale=log doesn't work on joinmarket.me
00:10 < adlai> ah you probably cache the charts to avoid regenerating them.
00:16 < trotski2000> adlai: I've been checking the documentation and clientserver indeed seems superior... Furthermore I see it is updated often, while the regular joinmarket has not been update for a long time. Hopefully we can promote clientserver more
00:16 < trotski2000> I really like the concept, I'd love to see wallets adopting it, it would be great for coinjoins to be the default way to make transactions. 
00:17 < adlai> yeah i don't understand why pretty much every business that keeps a hot wallet, isn't providing liquidity, and offering cj withdrawals for an added fee
00:17 < adlai> well i "understand" why - laziness :)
01:52 < trotski2000> adlai: wouldn't "fewer liquidity providers" harm privacy? Imagine I control 80% of the liquidity providers, that would pretty much destroy all privacy expactations, am i right?
01:53 < GitHub154> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ closed pull request #86: Update TESTING.md (master...update-testing-doc) https://git.io/v5xoP
01:53 < GitHub174> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vdqas
01:53 < GitHub174> joinmarket-clientserver/master 428cc75 mecampbellsoup: Default regtest bitcoin conf to test/bitcoin.conf...
01:53 < GitHub174> joinmarket-clientserver/master d75e42c AdamISZ: Merge #86: Update TESTING.md...
01:54 < waxwing> trotski2000, yes, definitely the case that fewer liq. prov. lowers the overall probability of privacy being good.
01:54 < waxwing> how much that's the case depends on details.
01:54 < waxwing> heck, even with tons of Makers you still have the issue that the fewer people actually *do* coinjoins, the lower the privacy value of your own. although it's not a simple equation.
01:56 < trotski2000> waxwing: do you know if exchanges flag as "suspicious" coins that have been coinjoined?
01:57 < waxwing> trotski2000, as someone who's used coinjoins to make retail payments quite often, i can say i've never experienced something like that
01:57 < waxwing> not sure if i ever used a coinjoin to pay an exchange, i use them very infrequently
01:57 < trotski2000> I never did anything fishy with my coins, I only mined them backed in the day, but I like to restore privacy after I did some payments and I used "light" ways to manage my keys which probably gave away all the addies I control. It would be a bummer if the next time I sell an X amounts of coins my account gets flagged
01:58 < trotski2000> waxwing: I do retail payments super often. I guess retailers/bitpay/etc. are not the problem, exchanges probably are.
01:58 < waxwing> i haven't heard of any case of anyone getting flagged for using a coinjoin, and i doubt it'd happen.
01:58 < trotski2000> they do ask where the coins came from. If you mined them and made no transaction it is very easy for them to see that that's the case. 
01:58 < waxwing> trotski2000, ok, so we're in the same boat i guess. i personally doubt it but i have no concrete evidence.
01:59 < waxwing> oh you're talking about kyc/aml exchanges like they have nowadays, if you're selling for fiat right.
01:59 < trotski2000> waxwing: exactly. I've sold quite a lot of coins in the past and they do extensive kyc/aml
01:59 < waxwing> hmm i have sold coins for fiat via 2 or 3 different methods, where i had to give up ID, but i never had 'where did the coins come from'
01:59 < trotski2000> with no coinjoins it's easy for them to see that you mined those coins and when
01:59 < waxwing> maybe it depends on the amount? :)
02:00 < waxwing> yeah but that's basically just admitting that bitcoin isn't money ... :(
02:00 < waxwing> if you have to describe how it was created or its exact history, blech
02:00 < trotski2000> waxwing: sure, it depends on the amount. I've used many exchanges, including MtGox, and when you hit a certain threshold they do ask where the coins come from and they even ask for proof. 
02:01 < trotski2000> waxwing: that's indeed the biggest problem with bitcoin, fungibility.
02:01 < waxwing> sure, but i'm not sure how technology can help, if they put the burden on *you* to justify where the coins come from.
02:02 < waxwing> i mean, how are monero or zcash going to help there (even if they work as advertised)?
02:02 < waxwing> if you're responsible to prove origin and origin is deliberately obscured.
02:02 < trotski2000> waxwing: anyhow all financial institutions have aml/kyc procedures. If you open a bank account and transfer a big amount they will want to know where that money comes from. 
02:03 < waxwing> yes, i understand, but i don't see what anyone on the tech side can do about it.
02:04 < waxwing> originally you were asking if coinjoins might get flagged as suspicious; that's one question.
02:04 < waxwing> but now you're describing a situation where an exchange actively asks you to prove the origin of the funds. that's a very different Q I think.
02:04 < trotski2000> waxwing: I guess monero or zcash help because your transactions are private if you want them private, but if you want to interact with a regulated institution then you will have to follow aml/kyc, its normal. The problem with bitcoin is the transactions aren't private in any case, so you can have malicious third parties linking your addies together
02:05 < waxwing> yeah but see above ^ ; you're mixing two questions here.
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02:06 < waxwing> btw in zcash the obfuscation is optional; so does that mean that a shielded address would be marked as suspicious?
02:06 < waxwing> in monero it's not optional; but does that mean that *all* monero is marked as suspicious?
02:08 < waxwing> anyway not trying to have an argument, i don't think you can win against the "financial thoughtcrime police" of the "system". i don't think there are any ultimate answers.
02:08 < trotski2000> waxwing: I think that obfuscated by default (or mandatory obfuscation) is much better. If you need to interact with a regulated institutions then you provide proof of origin: invoices, whatever. But you disclose that information only if you want to,. When obfuscation is optional/not by default you might also be required to  NOT use the obfuscation, which is a security risk.
02:10 < waxwing> yes i think i can agree with all that, except that in practice i fear you may be required to not use the obfuscation of a mandatorily-obfuscated system by being required not to use that system.
02:10 < trotski2000> waxwing: well I think that its normal for regulated institutions to demand proof of origin for big amounts of money. I don't think that's wrong. But I do think its wrong that unrelated third parties can see your transaction history and figure out your balance.
02:11 < waxwing> again i can mostly agree. note that AML is being applied to amounts like $1000 in europe nowadays; amounts of cash of that amount are being treated as suspicious by banks.
02:12 < waxwing> the system has gone *way* beyond what can be considered reasonable.
02:12 < trotski2000> waxwing: "except that in practice i fear you may be required to not use the obfuscation of a mandatorily-obfuscated system by being required not to use that system" -> well, we had this fear with Bitcoin too. I guess that if the system reaches critical mass is difficult to stop it. At the end I think we agree that we need better fungibility and better privacy tools.
02:12 < trotski2000> waxwing: "the system has gone *way* beyond what can be considered reasonable." -> here i fully agree!
02:45 < trotski2000> waxwing: when using the tumbler at some point like tx 4 or 5 I always get the "ERROR not enough liquidity", do you know if this is normal? If I stop the tumbler and restart it it always work, so it doesn't seem like it is really a liquidity problem :(
02:46 < waxwing> trotski2000, i'm not sure, this is joinmarket-org/joinmarket right? i can't remember some well known condition that would cause that.
02:46 < trotski2000> waxwing: yes, the "regular" joinmarket
03:22 < waxwing> this one came back, still don't know what it is https://travis-ci.org/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/builds/279930063#L1053
03:23 < waxwing> i mean, apart from being what it says it is, probably
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03:57 < trotski2000> waxwing: I'm using this (https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ffe37c4741c02ce12ead1d40c912cd4c#file-joinmarket-qt-mac-install-sh) to use joinmarket-qt on MacOs, is that ok?
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04:39 < waxwing> trotski2000, thanks i'll take a look. hopefully we can add that somewhere to docs if it works. anyone else pls take a look belcher adlai etc
04:40 < belcher> thats good
04:40 < waxwing> it does look rather good yeah
04:40 < belcher> i dont know anything about mac so cant really comment, but yeah add it
04:41 < waxwing> in theory running python scripts/joinmarket-qt.py should be no problem as opposed to cd scripts/ ; python joinmarket-qt.py (with only difference being where wallets/ and logs/ is stored), because packages, but never really bothered to worry about it.
04:41 < waxwing> otoh, on that point, see discussion in https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/issues/62
04:42 < waxwing> trotski2000, i'm struggling to think what is going on in the line `brew install cartr/qt4/pyqt@4 libsodium`
04:43 < waxwing> what's "cartr" i wonder. the comment says install pyqt4 but presumably it also installs libsodium? 
04:43 < trotski2000> waxwing: I didn't write the install script but yeah it also installs libsodium
04:43 < waxwing> trotski2000, which install script is that?
04:44 < trotski2000> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ffe37c4741c02ce12ead1d40c912cd4c#file-joinmarket-qt-mac-install-sh
04:44 < waxwing> oh, this one :)
04:44 < waxwing> yeah
04:44 < waxwing> right so i should interpret that line as something similar to 'apt-get pyqt4 libsodium' i guess.
04:44 < waxwing> just looks very weird with that cartr/ thing
04:44 < trotski2000> yeah
04:47 < waxwing> trotski2000, well if you confirm that that works (at least in some cases) we can add that to installation document.
04:47 < waxwing> also PRs are welcome :)
04:47 < trotski2000> yeah, it works!
04:50 < trotski2000> mmmm wait... Too son :( The GUI works, but it doesn't connect to IRC
05:07 < trotski2000> so the GUI works but not everything else... Maybe it is not using the real joinmarket pit because it is cloning from master?
05:10 < waxwing> trotski2000, maybe a joinmarket.cfg wrong version or something ...
05:10 < waxwing> try running from within scripts/ ? (shouldnt matter but see #62 ; just want to remove that from the equation)
05:10 < waxwing> the default config from master will be mainnet and mainnet pit, yes
05:11 < waxwing> one possible issue can be if one of the clearnet irc servers is down; i'm sure that the onion IRC servers are available rn
05:16 < trotski2000> i use onion
05:16 < waxwing> trotski2000, ah just noticed that installs the pre-segwit version of jm-cs
05:16 < trotski2000> Unfortunately scripts aren't working neither 
05:16 < trotski2000> waxwing: yep, pre-segwit 
05:17 < waxwing> feel free to let us know what the errors are
05:23 < trotski2000> Ok Im going to try again in 30 min aprox and I'll let you knkw
06:04 < trotski2000> waxwing, here we go:
06:04 < trotski2000> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/4ILBatNO/
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06:14 < waxwing> trotski2000, ok that happens when there aren't an equal number of entries in the lists in each setting under MESSAGING
06:14 < waxwing> sorry it's annoying (and stupid) but each entry has to have the same number of fields.
06:14 < waxwing> so if you change it from say server1, server2 to just server2 then there has to be only 1 entry in every field in that section
06:23 < trotski2000> waxwing: understood
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06:39 < trotski2000> waxwing: well, all the entries have 2 lines in [MESSAGING] nad I still get that error
06:40 < waxwing> trotski2000, are you running 'python script.py' from within scripts/ or are you running 'python scripts/script.py' from the dir above?
06:40 < trotski2000> running it from within scripts
06:41 < waxwing> ok. so every entry in MESSAGING has = a, b ? or every one has = a? in the joinmarket.cfg inside the scripts/ directory?
06:41 < waxwing> because unless i'm missing something strange there is no other way to get that exception.
06:42 < trotski2000> every entry in MESSAGING has = a, b in the joinmarket.cfg inside the scripts/directory
06:43 < trotski2000> I also have a bunch of commented (#) lines with only one entry but I guess those doesn't count
06:43 < waxwing> in extremis you could go into /*/jmvenv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/jmclient/configure.py and edit that line (or the line above it) to print out the value of configdata as a sanity check to see what it's reading.
06:43 < waxwing> yeah commented will be ignored
06:43 < trotski2000> this is it:
06:43 < waxwing> add a line before that says `print(configdata)`
06:43 < trotski2000> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/7LWKYffp/
06:44 < waxwing> yes that should be right. but there's no other interpretation, it means that configdata that's been read does not have the right number of entries.
06:45 < trotski2000> ok now I gues a different error
06:45 < waxwing> btw this is no different between the two versions. pls add that print() line mentioned above.
06:46 < trotski2000> python[13939:950734] modalSession has been exited prematurely - check for a reentrant call to endModalSession:
06:46 < trotski2000> [MainThread  ] [DEBUG]  starting coinjoin ..
06:46 < trotski2000> Unhandled error in Deferred:
06:46 < waxwing> oh! it's missing channel, isn't it?
06:46 < trotski2000> I guess
06:46 < waxwing> trotski2000, yeah you've missed out channel, didn't immediately realise that could cause it too
06:47 < trotski2000> the regular joinmarket works fine with that cfg
06:47 < waxwing> happens to also be indexerror when you have the wrong number of entries.
06:48 < waxwing> oh does it? i wouldn't have thought so, but either way, add that back in.
06:49 < trotski2000> what should I add exactly?
06:50 < trotski2000> channel = joinmarket-pit ?
06:50 < waxwing> just the same as what's commented out. or just remove the comment.
06:50 < waxwing> yeah
06:50 < waxwing> looked again at the code, pretty sure it'd fail in old version without a channel specified.
06:51 < trotski2000> mmm     
06:51 < trotski2000> it seems to be working now
06:51 < trotski2000> waxwing: in clientserver, isn't there a way to accept the tumbler schedule before it runs?
06:52 < trotski2000> to check how many blocks, txs, time?
06:52 < waxwing> oh, now that is a good point i think.
06:52 < waxwing> in the gui, you see it presented before clicking 'start'. you could just not start :)
06:52 < trotski2000> yeah, in the GUI I see :)
06:52 < trotski2000> I was trying the tumbler.py now
06:53 < waxwing> but i think i may have omitted to include that on command line version .. what you can do is just quit it immediately.
06:53 < waxwing> and then look at logs/TUMBLE.schedule and if you like, it, repeat with --restart added to command line flags. should work.
06:53 < waxwing> it's also possible to edit the TUMBLE.schedule by hand and then restart, but i wouldn't do that. if you want to get fancy, just run sendpayment.py with a schedule file.
06:53 < waxwing> you can make up your own tumbling algorithm that way.
06:54 < trotski2000> so when I generate a tumble schedule via the GUI it is written to logs/TUMBLE.schedule?
06:54 < waxwing> if you're going to try using the tumbler in that version, take a moment to read tumblerguide.md
06:54 < waxwing> yes it is, but it's also shown in the tab (multiple join tab)
06:54 < waxwing> and it updates as the run continues in that tab, but yeah it's in that file.
06:55 < waxwing> there is also a TUMBLE.log file which i can recommend keeping an eye on as it gives a good summary of what's going on (like if there was a failure and a tweak, you see it there)
06:55 < waxwing> but yeah tumblerguide.md introduces you to the main points i think
07:02 < trotski2000> great
07:02 < trotski2000> I cannot see the total expected run time, right?
07:03 < waxwing> trotski2000, no iirc i didn't do that. could for sure be a good addition. open issues / PRs welcome on that.
07:03 < trotski2000> waxwing: ok!
07:04 < waxwing> trotski2000, so are you confirming that those mac-os instructions work?
07:04 < trotski2000> waxwing: yes!
07:04 < waxwing> i wonder if we can get someone who knows mac a bit to verify that it's a sane/sensible installation.
07:05 < waxwing> note the new versoin of jmcs install.sh is checking gpg signatures of the main extra packages we install (like libsodium)
07:05 < trotski2000> yeah
07:05 < waxwing> i don't know what counts as reasonable security, these things just depend on 'stuff', so it'd have to be someone who knows how things like 'brew' work and whether there are sensible extra precautions we can take
07:06 < waxwing> maybe everything is just automatically secure because it's Apple? :)
07:06 < trotski2000> waxwing: when I used your install.sh I had to change the linux command (sha256sum -c) for the mac command (shasum -a 256 -c) in your script
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07:06 < waxwing> ah ok. but i'm confused, that script doesn't use install.sh?
07:07 < waxwing> but you did, right?
07:11 < trotski2000> waxwing: yep
07:11 < waxwing> ok; and that was the only edit needed?
07:11 < trotski2000> no, I didn't succeed to install it and that's when I found the script I linked
07:11 < trotski2000> I will try again with the install.sh script
07:11 < trotski2000> btw, last question waxwing
07:12 < trotski2000> do you know why this happens in the regular joinmarket?
07:12 < waxwing> ah, ok, thanks. if it's just a couple of minor changes, arubi might be able to add in support for MacOS in the install.sh script
07:12 < trotski2000> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/kxqNaGod/
07:12 < trotski2000> obviously I had funds in the wallet
07:13 < waxwing> yeah you already asked earlier, not really, no. but there is a weirdness around sourcing funds for sweeps.
07:13 < trotski2000> they did not have 5 confirmations but it was in the middle of a tumbling session
07:13 < trotski2000> waxwing: ah ok, thanks
07:13 < waxwing> the problem is that there is really a circular dependency. in order to know how much funds you need, you need to know how big the tx is. but you don't know that until you've asked for responses from counterparties (their inputs)
07:14 < waxwing> but .. it's really complicated, actually, sorry i can't remember exactly. perhaps i'll look into that again.
07:14 < waxwing> but was trying to get stuff on coinswap done today.
07:24 < waxwing> trotski2000, huh i took another look and now i'm reasonably sure that's a bug
07:24 < waxwing> Note that the exception is "Not enough funds"
07:25 < trotski2000> yep     
07:25 < waxwing> ah no, take it back. not the bug i was thinking of. there is some reason you can't even select the intended amount of coins.
07:27 < waxwing> that's supposed to be a last-ditch attempt, when we fail to select (intend amt + some fees) we try to avoid crashing by just selecting the amount itself. if that's failing something more serious is wrong, like the coins are not there. it should be that the previous tx is confirmed at that point, so any attempt to 'select' coins from the wallet should succeed. Not sure, this doesn't seem simple.
07:27 < waxwing> The simple way this sometimes happened in the past was when people were using dodgy connections to like blockr.io and they couldn't get a reliable reading of their coins, but if you're using a local Core instance it won't be something like that.
07:28 < waxwing> sorry, as i suspected, i don't have any simple answer to this that wouldn't involve a ton of debugging and thinking.
07:29 < trotski2000> waxwing: ok, no problem, will now try a few times jm-cs to se if it is more reliable for me
07:29 < trotski2000> with the regular joinmarket I never managed to finish a tumbler run
07:30 < trotski2000> normally it gets stuck at tx 4 or 5
07:30 < trotski2000> I tried like 10 times now
07:30 < trotski2000> one of the typical mistakes is the "not enough funds" I copied early
07:30 < waxwing> if you do get a problem (or just want to switch off for that matter), you can just add --restart second time.
07:30 < trotski2000> waxwing: what do I do in the GUI?
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07:30 < waxwing> i was able to do a complete tumbler run of 10-11 txs first time with this version, on mainnet.
07:30 < waxwing> of course done it a lot of times on testnet too but not quite the same ...
07:31 < waxwing> the GUI recognizes that you're restarting and asks if you want to continue
07:31 < trotski2000> ah, ok
07:31 < trotski2000> and BTW, what if I want to update to segwit?
07:31 < waxwing> that is, if you load the TUMBLE.schedule schedule file. wait, i think i remembered that right ...
07:32 < trotski2000> what specific files should I update to generate a segwit wallet?
07:32 < waxwing> i'd recommend it because that's what i've been working on. won't be updating the version in the commit in that script. well, don't plan to anyway.
07:32 < waxwing> and it ought to be better for everyone if we use it.
07:34 < trotski2000> maybe I should just remove "git checkout 6ad114d" from the install script I copied earlier, right?
07:34 < waxwing> yes that would do it. no guarantee all the deps are still right but in principle.
07:34 < waxwing> also should take a release rather than master
07:35 < waxwing> could do a git checkout tags/v0.3.1 or similar
07:35 < trotski2000> btw im trying it now and its been stuck for a while here: "[Dummy-2     ] [INFO ]  Makers didnt respond: [u'*' etc]
07:36 < trotski2000> I edited that but you get it, I get a list of makers that are not responding
07:36 < trotski2000> is that normal? with the other joinmarket first tx happened very fast
07:36 < waxwing> i think the default wait is maybe 30,60 seconds. i always tail -f TUMBLE.log to see where it's at
07:37 < trotski2000> well its been there for 7 minutes now
07:37 < waxwing> also there's a lot to be said for setting console_log_level to DEBUG, INFO is actually too quiet now.
07:37 < waxwing> are you in gui or command line?
07:37 < waxwing> debug level messages are still in logs/J5**.log
07:38 < trotski2000> GUI, but I'm also checking the console
07:38 < waxwing> the reason i created the TUMBLE.log file is because the debug output is too noisy. so you're not seeing a tx at all, looks like it might have crashed you think?
07:39 < waxwing> if you see nothing but the schedule in TUMBLE.log, look in the logs/J5**.log file and see if there's more details there.
07:39 < waxwing> oh forgot to mention (well it's in tumblerguide.md i think, that if it fails for some reason it waits about 10 minutes by default before trying to create again.
07:40 < trotski2000> same thing I see in the console, sending it via PM
07:40 < waxwing> one reason it might not work at all is if you're using ultra-low sizes. also don't set the number of counterparties too low since it needs some ability to complete with not all responding.
07:40 < waxwing> again this is in tumblerguide.md
07:45 < waxwing> so it's working now
07:45 < waxwing> for the non-audience :)
08:07 < trotski2000> yeah, its working
08:07 < trotski2000> :)     
08:11 < trotski2000> waxwing: where can I see the liquidity for the different joinmarkets? Regular one,  client-server, client-server segwit?
08:14 < waxwing> there is only segwit and nonsegwit
08:15 < waxwing> you can try the link in the topic, but don't guarantee it's accurate (tends to 'lose' participants). run ob-watcher.py locally for the same data but under your control (and fixes to the previously mentioned bug are welcome)
08:15 < waxwing> afk     
08:49 < trotski2000> waxwing: i don't see ob-watcher.py in joinmarket-cs
08:50 < trotski2000> and how do I check the segwit liquidity with ob-watcher.py? I think it is showing only the non-segwit
08:51 < belcher> its in obwatch/
08:52 < trotski2000> ok     
08:52 < trotski2000> mmm     
08:53 < trotski2000> belcher: I find it in the regular joinmarket folder but it only shows non-sw orders. I cannot find it in the joinmarket-clientserver one and I don't find the toggle for SW orders
08:53 < trotski2000> belcher: don't worry
08:53 < trotski2000> i will get it from github
08:54 < trotski2000> i have an old version
08:54 < arubi> $ find . -iname "ob-*"
08:54 < arubi> ./scripts/obwatch/ob-watcher.py
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10:21 < trotski2000> waxwing: lol, I failed to source a commitment because I have one utxo that has been used too many times and another that is too small.... LOL
10:35 < waxwing> trotski2000, oh well; you can add an external one or add one to the wallet or make one by doing a sendpayment inside (with -N 0)
10:42 < trotski2000> which method do you recommend? the last one (make one by doing a sendpayment inside) sounds good. 
10:42 < waxwing> yeah it's probably the least trouble
10:42 < trotski2000> the sendpayment should go to an addy in same mixdepth, right? and it should be +20% than the total amount in that mixdepth, right?
10:43 < waxwing> i've never thought about it much before, but i think if you send to another address (external say but doesn't matter) in the same mixdepth, that makes most sense. no privacy loss since all addresses in same mixdepth are assumed linked in any case.
10:44 < trotski2000> what's the difference between internal and external?
10:44 < waxwing> external is for receiving payments, basically. change will always be sent to internal.
10:44 < waxwing> in-jm-wallet payments are also always sent to internal
10:45 < waxwing> but for finding inputs, we source from both, so in that sense, they're one 'account' (in bip32 parlance)
10:46 < trotski2000> ok, great
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10:54 < waxwing> have a testnet coinswap server running for those intersted, can be accessed at http://fwjpp2ae5zcrccv7.onion:1234 (CoinswapCS repo, Qs to #coinswap if you're interested)
10:59 < trotski2000> I made the internal TX, now I guess I have to wait for the 5 confirms 
10:59 < trotski2000> Coinswap is a different obfuscation protocol? 
11:00 < waxwing> trotski2000, yes wait
11:01 < waxwing> coinswap yes you can start reading links from https://github.com/AdamISZ/CoinSwapCS#coinswap-basics if you're new to the idea
12:44 < GitHub35> [joinmarket-clientserver] mecampbellsoup opened pull request #93: Do not include 0/0 our_inputs/our_outputs transactions in wallet history (master...debug-unknown-transaction-type-in-history) https://git.io/vdmQB
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13:04 < delinquentme> Ok so I keep getting this issue with curl locking down port 18444 ... and the test suite reports it as a Json RPC misconfig.
13:07 < belcher> joinmarket-clientserver doesnt need curl anymore
13:14 < delinquentme> are you guys all working off joinmarket-clientserver?
13:20 < belcher> yep     
13:37 < delinquentme> https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/wiki/Testing  Should I note that on this?
13:40 < belcher> just on testing? really it should be on the readme
13:40 < belcher> just do nothing for now, its still a recent development
13:40 < belcher> i guess soon we'll merge clientserver into the main joinmarket repos
13:42 < delinquentme> I did spend a bit of time doing work to make the testing work on joinmarket as I thought it was the 'core' (where the tech was being developed)
13:42 < delinquentme> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
13:43 < trotski2000> so, I'm finally using joinmarket-qt (joinmarket-clientserver) and everything is going well :)
13:43 < belcher> oh     
13:43 < belcher> damn, sorry
13:43 < trotski2000> how can I generate a non segwit wallet on 0.3.1?
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13:58 < delinquentme> does sendpayment support sending from a specific wallet address?
14:02 < delinquentme> 2017-09-27 14:01:40,779 [MainThread  ] [INFO ]  Taker not continuing after receipt of orderbook
14:07 < belcher> nope delinquentme 
14:07 < belcher> but you could (although with some difficulty) choose the addresses you spent from with the create-unsigned-tx.py script
14:08 < delinquentme> belcher I want to test getting funds out of my wallets... whats the easiest way to do that?
14:09 < belcher> sendpayment then
14:09 < delinquentme> Im using sendpayment and its telling me i've disconnected fromthe irc serve bc bad connection.  I know the machine is on a solid connection.
14:10 < delinquentme> https://pastebin.com/raw/DVYpHBDh this is what its spitting back at me
14:12 < belcher> i think theres not enough liquidity because you're attempting to move a very small amount
14:12 < belcher> if you do -N 0 then it will do a non-coinjoin transaction and the liquidity wont be an issue
14:18 < delinquentme> belcher and theres no auto-funciton to empty a single wallet?  Just the entirey of a mixing depth?
14:18 < belcher> yes, you set the amount = 0
14:18 < belcher> that does a sweep, where it sends it all
14:18 < delinquentme> python sendpayment.py -N 0 wallet.json 0 HASH
14:19 < belcher> all in that mixdepth at least
14:19 < delinquentme> got it
14:21 < quitobro> waxwing: do you run the joinmarket.me server? orderbook looks like it’s missing a buncha the usual orders… https://joinmarket.me/ob/
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20:28 < delinquentme> okes belcher i read the previous posts on coinjoin ... Im curious on why“When you want to make a payment, find someone else who also wants to make a payment and make a joint payment together.”  increases anonymity 
20:28 < delinquentme> whats the next step in reading on that topic?
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20:33 < delinquentme> also how do we get reports on what the needs of the market are?  Do I need a 1 btc balance? 5 btc balance?  ... are there needs for less than .5btc balances?
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22:42 < waxwing> delinquentme, in debug mode, you always get that irc connection lost error message at the end. it's not an error actually (that's why i put it under debug, because it looks like it)
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22:43 < waxwing> (and yeah obv that amt is too small for any makers to accept)
22:50 < waxwing> delinquentme, re: public /ob yeah that was a screwup, fixed, thanks
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22:53 < bweshfnf> waxwing: why does it look like you are talking to yourself?
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23:26 < waxwing> sorry last msg was for quitobro not delinquentme
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