--- Day changed Tue Oct 08 2019 01:22 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 03:32 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/RedAcor] Hai belcher 03:33 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/RedAcor] When you are in cg, check your memo please: /msg memoserv list 04:16 -!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:18 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/belcher] ty, iv just read it 04:19 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/RedAcor] You're welcome. :) 04:19 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/belcher] ill paste it here i think, so all joinmarket people know 04:19 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/RedAcor] Nice. :) 04:19 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/belcher] -MemoServ- CgAn may down because founder isnt around for weeks. I already talked with another network's stuff to migrate. You can set it for you users: irc.anarchyplanet.org Port 6697 - km3jy7nrj3e2wiju.onion 04:20 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/RedAcor] Sorry. staff* :) 04:20 -!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #joinmarket 05:01 < waxwing> thanks belcher 05:01 < waxwing> well and thanks RedAcor 06:38 < waxwing> AlexCato or anyone else testing #359, please update to latest (it's not squashed, will do shortly ofc), it's updated 07:55 -!- viasil [~viasil@95.174.67.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57 -!- viasil [~viasil@95.174.67.204] has joined #joinmarket 09:00 -!- noobJMuser [5fae423c@95.174.66.60] has joined #joinmarket 09:09 < noobJMuser> Hi everybody, need some help again. I was running yield generator for some time and now have coins all over the different mixdepths. I also sent some new coins from the external wallet to external branch of the mixdeph 0. Now I want to do a sweep using sendpayment from this mixdepth. What whould happen? Will all these coins be included in a 09:09 < noobJMuser> transaction? 09:14 < noobJMuser> I know I can use external branch of any mixdepth to fund the wallet. But what happens next? Will yield generator move them to internal branch of the same mixdepth or they will be moved to the next level? 09:15 < waxwing> noobJMuser, yes, JM will always put coins in internal addresses. the purpose of the external list is only to give you addresses you can safely deposit into without accidentally clashing with in-process transactions (in a yieldgenerator or tumbler) 09:16 < waxwing> as to your first question, not really sure what you're asking, of course you can send the coins out in a sweep; if you're asking, does sweep send all coins in internal and external, then answer is, yes. 09:16 < noobJMuser> I am trying to understand the best way to fund the wallet using multiple transactions. Should I put them all on one level and let yield generator do do its work or it is better to split them among levels initially? 09:16 < waxwing> ok there's another point there about funding. if running a yield generator, just fund to any external address, it's up to you. 09:17 < waxwing> but, one detail: until #359 is merged and we put in a new release, then a yield generator will not know about funds you deposit *while* it is running. make sure to restart it after the coins are confirmed. 09:18 < noobJMuser> ah, okay... got it! thanks 09:18 < waxwing> generally people have to restart anyway, because they have to run wallet-tool to see which addresses they should use to fund to. but anyway just worth a mention. 09:18 < waxwing> restarting periodically is good anyway. 09:19 < noobJMuser> but if I want to keep deposited funds from mixing all together, what is the best option then? 09:19 < waxwing> oh, not sure what you're looking for, the idea of a yg is that it does lots of coinjoins with what's deposited to it. 09:19 < waxwing> if you want a new set of coins to never touch the old, create a new wallet. 09:20 < waxwing> you can run 2 ygs at the same time with 2 different wallets, if that's interesting for some reason. you just can't run 2 ygs with one wallet. 09:22 < noobJMuser> let say I have made two transactions to the external branch, then start yield generator. Is there a possibility, that they will be used together to fund a someones coinjoin right from the start? 09:24 < waxwing> noobJMuser, very much so, yes. that's the intention. 09:25 < waxwing> you can fund into two different mixdepths, and it'll certainly provide a buffer against people concluding that the coins are linked. 09:25 < noobJMuser> ok, got it. so if I don't want them to be joined, I should use two wallets 09:25 < waxwing> that's the general principle; mixdepths are accounts as per BIP32 and there is some defence in joinmarket against different accounts being linked. 09:25 < waxwing> the defence is that fundamentally we (you) never make a transaction that co-spends inputs from different accounts (mixdepths) 09:26 < waxwing> and you may transfer coins from 1 mixdepth to another, in the same wallet, but only via a coinjoin; so it's not at all clear that it's your mixdepth (it could be that of the other participants in the join) 09:26 < noobJMuser> but If I use mixdepth 0 and 1 to deposit, the coins for sure will be joined in a couple of trasactions 09:26 < waxwing> both yield generator and tumbler do that automatically, i.e. they do coinjoins sending coins from one mixdepth to another in your wallet, but only the equal sized coinjoins cross that barrier 09:27 < waxwing> the remaining coins (the change) stay in the same mixdepth they started, and so remain linked with other coins in that mixdepth. 09:27 < waxwing> if you want to delve a bit more you might find my `tumbler_privacy.md` document (search it i guess) helpful, in particular how it defines a "completed mixdepth closure". 09:28 < noobJMuser> thank you very much for the tool and answers! I love it more, than other competitors (wasabi and samourai) 09:29 < waxwing> (re: your last point, they will be 'connected' - but only via coinjoin so that nobody really knows that's you and not one of the other coinjoin participants, according to above principles ^ ) 09:29 < noobJMuser> I was reading the docs, but some things are still not obvious for me 09:29 < waxwing> nothing here is obvious tbh :) 09:29 < noobJMuser> heh, thanks anyways 09:39 -!- noobJMuser [5fae423c@95.174.66.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:44 < takinbo> waxwing: what are you thoughts on using addresses on the external branch of multiple mix depths as a way to prevent the unintentional cojoining of inputs in a single transaction? 09:44 < belcher> takinbo its a good idea 09:44 < takinbo> might be better than using two yg as there's no guaranty that the two ygs don't get selected for a coinjoin 09:45 < belcher> i also mentioned it in the privacy wiki page https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Privacy#Example_-_Stopping_incoming_payments_from_different_sources_from_being_linked_together 09:45 < waxwing> well i did say it: you can fund into two different mixdepths, and it'll certainly provide a buffer against people concluding that the coins are linked. 09:48 < takinbo> i might have missed it. thanks. my initial thought was that it's best to always fund md0 especially if the idea was to take coins out when they get to md4 or higher 10:08 < waxwing> takinbo, good point that it may actually be *better* .. but i mean it's all arguable, since even if they were selected together, the subset sums deduced would be disjoint. 10:09 < waxwing> anyway you're both right to emphasise the mixdepths having some kind of isolation, i was trying to expound on that a bit towards the end of the discussion. but nothing here is simple, that's for sure :) 10:14 -!- noobJMuser [5fae423c@95.174.66.60] has joined #joinmarket 10:53 -!- noobJMuser [5fae423c@95.174.66.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 13:41 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:31 -!- treyzania [~treyzania@paphos.tr3y.io] has joined #joinmarket 15:44 -!- arubi_ [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #joinmarket 15:47 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:21 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4AAB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22 -!- CgRelayBot [~CgRelayBo@p5DE4AAB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:24 -!- raedah [~x@192.30.89.51] has joined #joinmarket 17:34 -!- CgRelayBot [~CgRelayBo@p5DE4A9EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 17:36 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4A9EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 18:26 -!- BlueMatt [~BlueMatt@unaffiliated/bluematt] has joined #joinmarket