--- Log opened Sat Jul 25 00:00:29 2020
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01:56 -!- BitcoinAustrian [4d0913d7@x4d0913d7.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #joinmarket
01:57 < BitcoinAustrian> Quick question: Can anyone point me at the documentation regarding using joinmarket over Tor? Is this possible? I couldn't find anything
02:01 < belcher_> yes its possible
02:01 < belcher_> look in the joinmarket.cfg file
02:02 < belcher_> the way you do it is you tell joinmarket to connect to the irc servers over tor, the .cfg file gives instructions
02:02 < belcher_> BitcoinAustrian ^
02:02 < belcher_> also, if you're using the Joinmarket-Qt then you do it via its GUI configuration rather than changing any file
02:09 < BitcoinAustrian> belcher_ Yes I am using the command line and have looked at the file but it doesn't seem clear to me how to make it connect over tor. Do I just have to set socks5=true for both IRC channels? What are the different commented out "for tor" messages for? 
02:11 < BitcoinAustrian> Or do I just comment out everything under the "for tor" comment? Seems like I am overwriting the socks5 option like this
02:14 < belcher_> socks5=true, socks5 host and socks5 port should point to tor (usually localhost:9150 or localhost:9050)
02:16 < BitcoinAustrian> Ok so I don't need to comment out everything below the "for tor" comment?
02:17 < BitcoinAustrian> belcher_ only set socks5=true two times in the config?
02:17 < BitcoinAustrian> for server 1 and server 2?
02:17 < belcher_> yes
02:18 < belcher_> you need to uncomment the lines below "for tor"
02:18 < belcher_> and comment the same lines above
02:19 < belcher_> so for example in server2 `host = irc.hackint.org` you need to comment that and uncomment `host = ncwkrwxpq2ikcngxq3dy2xctuheniggtqeibvgofixpzvrwpa77tozqd.onion`
02:20 < BitcoinAustrian> So like this:
02:21 < BitcoinAustrian> [MESSAGING:server1]#host = irc.darkscience.netchannel = joinmarket-pitport = 6697usessl = true#socks5 = truesocks5_host = localhostsocks5_port = 9050#for torhost = darksci3bfoka7tw.onionsocks5 = true
02:21 < belcher_> yes i think so
02:21 < belcher_> you can try it to see if it works, by running the ob-watcher.py script
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02:35 < BitcoinAustrian> belcher_ If I run that script I get this error: Traceback (most recent call last):  File "ob-watcher.py", line 483, in <module>    main()  File "ob-watcher.py", line 475, in main    mcc.set_nick(get_dummy_nick())  File "ob-watcher.py", line 442, in get_dummy_nick    nick_pkh = btc.b58encode(nick_pkh_raw)AttributeError: module 'jmbitcoin' has no
02:35 < BitcoinAustrian> attribute 'b58encode'
02:35 < belcher_> hmm, thats a bug
02:36 < belcher_> ok well maybe run sendpayment instead? just to see if it connects
02:36 < belcher_> then ctrl+c before it actually does anything
02:36 < BitcoinAustrian> I'm on this commit: 02df40e
02:36 < BitcoinAustrian> 4 commits behind master
02:37 < BitcoinAustrian> How do I know if it actually does anything?
02:45 < belcher_> BitcoinAustrian there should be a message in the terminal when it successfully connects
02:45 < belcher_> you should be able to ctrl+c right after
02:52 < BitcoinAustrian> belcher_ joined: #joinmarket-pit irc-eu-2.darkscience.net
02:52 < BitcoinAustrian> This is a good sign, right?
02:52 < belcher_> yes
02:54 < BitcoinAustrian> Another question: How can I export my wallet as watch-only into electrum? If I paste the xpub electrum interprets this as a p2pkh wallet and doesn't show any balances.
02:54 < BitcoinAustrian> I think it wants a ypub but how do I get it?
02:54 < belcher_> i dont know, why do want to do that?
02:55 < belcher_> unless you connect to your own electrum server, electrum will damage your privacy
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02:55 < BitcoinAustrian> I am running my own electrum rust server
02:55 < belcher_> ok
02:56 < belcher_> you'd need some way to change the vbyte of the xpub key to make it have the right prefix
02:56 < belcher_> i dont know how
02:56 < BitcoinAustrian> Its just nice to see how the transactions unfold live
02:56 < BitcoinAustrian> I see, thanks I think I can figure it out
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03:12 < BitcoinAustrian> If I understand it correctly after I run the tumbler.py script the coins will be in in seperate addresses, that should not be consolidated at any time in the future. Is this correct?
03:15 < waxwing> basically, yes. either send them to different external destinations (exchange, cold wallet etc.) or send them to different accounts in one wallet (you could create a new Joinmarket wallet and send to the external branch of three different mixdepths(=accounts))
03:15 < waxwing> here 'accounts' is the term from bip32 (HD wallets)
03:16 < waxwing> technically it's also fine in Joinmarket to send to say 3 different external addresses in the *same* account - in the sense that you can use coin control to spend those utxos separately.
03:16 < waxwing> but that's a hassle, use the mixdepths/accounts feature, because it's there to serve that purpose - Joinmarket will never co-spend utxos from *different* mixdepths at the same time.
03:17 < waxwing> you can conceptually look at each mixdepth/account as a separate "pocket" in your wallet.
03:18 < BitcoinAustrian> I see, thanks for the detailed reply. I think I will have to label them in Electrum and then use coin control to spend them separately in the future.
03:19 < waxwing> yep that works too. it is a bit more hassle but workable.
03:20 < waxwing> i feel that a lot of commentators on this topic (bitcoin privacy) are way too blase about this problem; there is a limit to how much you can splinter your stuff into smaller and smaller utxos and never recombine them.
03:21 < BitcoinAustrian> My problem is that I don't understand fully how I am compromising my privacy if I recomine them. Probably best for privacy is to spend only single utxos (never more than one input) and then immediately run a coinjoin again.
03:22 < BitcoinAustrian> Don't know how workable that is though. Probably have to make some trade offs here. Don't need 100% privacy for everything.
03:22 < BitcoinAustrian> Or just never spend and just hodl :)
03:22 < waxwing> it's just that basic principle that "co-spending of inputs implies one person owns all those inputs", which is not completely true - it is exactly what coinjoin violates. but it is a heuristic that is widely used.
03:23 < waxwing> now after going through tumbler it won't usually be possible to know that the person doing that recombination is the same person who started each coinjoin in the tumbler.
03:23 < BitcoinAustrian> I see. I guess even better would be to do some "fake" coinjoins once in a while and use payjoin and lightning as well.
03:23 < waxwing> but it is at the very least very dangerous to the goal of delinking the starting amounts from the ending amounts
03:24 < waxwing> yes, basically. all of these have value in different cases. our goal here is to make it at least feasible to do some of them, some of the time. payjoin (to e.g. btcpayserver), including over tor, is already usable in the master branch.
03:25 < BitcoinAustrian> Doesn't this also depend a lot on the anonymity set? If everyone uses payjoin and coinjoin all the time, the linking becomes almost impossible to do.
03:26 < waxwing> somewhat yes. wrt vanilla coinjoin (as per JM, wasabi, samourai), it unfortunately doesn't scale to everyone doing it all the time.
03:26 < waxwing> it takes up too much space.
03:27 < BitcoinAustrian> Yes but that is assuming we will mostly use on-chain payments in the future. If you just use it to get from one lightning wallet to the next for example it could be quite workable. Or just make spending via coinJoin a default. That way it can even take up less space if for example cross-input signature aggregation is used in the future.
03:28 < BitcoinAustrian> And for some institutions NOT having privacy might in some cases actually be preferable
03:33 < BitcoinAustrian> waxwing will the tumbler script run forever if I don't stop it? Can I also provide an xpub instead of single addresses, so that I can just send some coins to mixdepth 0 and they will automatically be coinjoined?
03:42 < belcher_> it wont run forever BitcoinAustrian, eventually it sends coins outside the wallet to the addresses you specified
03:42 < belcher_> you cant give it a xpub right now
03:44 < BitcoinAustrian> belcher_ but what happens if I send new coins to mixdepth 0?
03:45 < belcher_> if you do it while tumbler is running then they wont be coinjoined
03:45 < BitcoinAustrian> At some point I'd probably have to provide new addresses
03:45 < BitcoinAustrian> I see so I have to restart it, got it
03:45 < belcher_> tumbler has a feature where you can tell it placeholders instead of addresses, then when it needs the addresses it stops and asks you
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05:04 < waxwing> belcher_ i pushed a fix for that ob-watcher bug to master directly, since it was trivial.
05:04 < belcher_> nice
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--- Log closed Sun Jul 26 00:00:30 2020