--- Log opened Tue Nov 24 00:00:25 2020
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07:44 < waxwing> ok i'm confident that we're ready for release (0.8.0 because new orderbook). will start working on release notes now.
07:44 < waxwing> obviously, let me know if you see a problem with that
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07:54 < dc81> what is the usual upgrade timeline? just wondering how quickly to move over to the new wallet (as a maker)
07:56 < belcher> depends on the market i guess
07:56 < belcher> presumably if you notice your p2sh maker isnt getting coinjoins anymore you might check if the bech32 coinjoins are going strong, then switch over
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08:32 < waxwing> i think everyone should switch over straight away
08:33 < waxwing> as much as possible, practical, anyway
08:40 < belcher> iirc you can even keep the same seed phrase?
08:43 < waxwing> belcher, hmm that certainly sounds true but i never even thought about it tbh.
08:44 < belcher> iirc you set something in the config file? segwit=true
08:44 < waxwing> native=false to keep p2sh
08:44 < waxwing> before 0.8.0 native defaulted to false. after, native will default to true.
08:45 < waxwing> but wallet stores the txtype
08:45 < waxwing> so that setting only affects (a) creating a new wallet and (b) when you're doing coinjoins it uses it to decide, which is a leftover and should be removed (it should just use the wallet data like everything else does, now)
08:47 < belcher> oh yeah native thats it
08:50 < dc81> so if i upgrade my 0.7.2 instance and change native to true, it will start using the bech32 wallet?
08:51 < waxwing> dc81, yes we've had bech32 wallets for some time, i want to say before 0.7.0 although i'd have to check. but 0.8.0 will allow you to do joinmarket joins with them. and will default to creating them.
08:52 < waxwing> yes, you just set native to true to create a bech32 wallet. after it's created, wallet-tool and Qt will recognize the wallet type from the wallet file data, regardless of your config settings (but see detail above)
08:53 < dc81> but as a maker, will it use the p2sh wallet for the input and bech32 for the output?
08:53 < waxwing> oh that. no we don't have that function within a maker.
08:53 < waxwing> there's a general concept that creating non-uniform script type outputs in coinjoins is a no-no.
08:53 < waxwing> it's admittedly debatable.
08:54 < waxwing> but anyway we don't have it in maker. you can do it in taker, as you're free to choose any output address you like.
08:54 < dc81> correct.. just trying to figure out my migration strategy as a maker
08:55 < waxwing> when i migrate a wallet i often do it slowly over time, but basically i'll sweep mixdepths one by one. either in coinjoins or not.
08:56 < waxwing> in this case i think i wouldn't bother with coinjoin as script type is changing so it's kinda flagged anyway.
08:56 < belcher> and if you're a maker all those coins will have been coinjoined for months so they basically have no history anyway
08:57 < dc81> i'm running 2 instances now, master and 0.7.2 and have started to migrate some over to bech32
08:57 < belcher> so an observer could see that coin A ends up in coin B, but because A has nothing but coinjoins in its history theres no privacy-relevant information you can link to coin B
08:57 < belcher> dc81 do you run two makers?
08:57 < waxwing> belcher, yeah true ... it's kinda nice to have coinjoin sweeps though, which you never get as maker .. but here, nah
08:57 < dc81> yes
08:58 < dc81> separate wallets
09:05 < dc81> i've just been moving smaller utxos, but keeping them at the same depth
09:06 < waxwing> sure. but you can't always avoid consolidation. i suppose you can prefer to restrict it to joins, it's a gray area because "in theory" input-change output linkage is always exposed, although in practice it's very often ambiguous.
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09:11 < waxwing> i think i'll add a native-segwit-upgrade.md to docs/ and link it from release, so there's one clear place where the advice exists for what to do.
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09:24 < dc81> re: #727, i'm more referring to users that will want to change the default config may be confused. my assumption is users would start with a new cfg file with the major upgrade to 0.8
09:24 < dc81> so it would be nice to have the yg section in the cfg file as part of 0.8
09:25 < waxwing> i'm not sure i understand 'users that will want to change the default config' vs 'users that will want to change the config'
09:25 < waxwing> users don't edit configure.py
09:25 < dc81> the joinmarket.cfg file
09:25 < dc81> if i keep my current joinmarket.cfg file from 0.7.2 during the upgrade, the yg section won't be there
09:26 < waxwing> correct, but the default get picked up anyway in the way i explained there.
09:26 < waxwing> whenever we add any new section.
09:26 < dc81> yes, but if i want to change the default, i would have to add that new section manually
09:27 < waxwing> yes and that's true of all new config options we added over the years.
09:27 < waxwing> we sometimes add a note 'back up your config, create a new config file and then add in your own custom values'. there's not much else we can do; that, and, adding the information about new values to release notes.
09:28 < waxwing> all of this is orthogonal to whether that new feature needs to be added in 0.8.0. i don't want to do that as there are enough things for users to pay attention to.
09:29 < dc81> i agree there's already a lot going on
09:30 < dc81> i'm not objecting to not including it, just more of a dissenting opinion 
09:30 < waxwing> re: not much else we could do, i guess we should probably "force" users with a prompt or something. never really looked into it.
09:32 < dc81> or maybe just add the yg section to the joinmarket.cfg, but not include the changes in the yg scripts (i just think section changes in a config file should happen at major updates instead of minor)
09:32 < dc81> (section add/deletes, not options within a section)
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 25 00:00:26 2020