--- Log opened Sun Feb 07 00:00:38 2021 00:58 -!- technonerd [~techno@gateway/tor-sasl/technonerd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59 -!- technonerd [~techno@gateway/tor-sasl/technonerd] has joined #joinmarket 01:20 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:05 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has joined #joinmarket 03:19 -!- Ashlynn4Smitham [~Ashlynn4S@static.57.1.216.95.clients.your-server.de] has joined #joinmarket 03:29 < waxwing> jigawatt, no, your utxo size doesn't matter. you can set merge algorithm (basically, the algorithm to decide which of your utxos get consumed in a particular spend) in the config file, i think for most people the "greedy" option is generally the best, keeping the number of your utxos fairly small over time. 03:30 < waxwing> as to getting a join, i tend to think that smaller joins are pretty much completely priced out of the market in the current fee regime. so it can certainly depend on the size of your offer, as well as fees ofc. 03:40 -!- rotwein [~rotwein@195-154-169-221.rev.poneytelecom.eu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log opened Sun Feb 07 03:57:27 2021 03:57 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has joined #joinmarket 03:57 -!- Topic for #joinmarket: Welcome to JoinMarket: Increase Fungibility and Subsidise Your Fees | https://github.com/Joinmarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver | @joinmarket r/joinmarket | Logs: http://gnusha.org/joinmarket/ | Latest release 0.8.0 | Also on ssl cfyfz6afpgfeirst.onion:6667 03:57 -!- Topic set by waxwing [~waxwing@unaffiliated/waxwing] [Sat Nov 28 15:22:50 2020] 03:57 [Users #joinmarket] 03:57 [@ChanServ ] [ deafboy ] [ keithhub[m] ] [ qubenix ] 03:57 [ achow101 ] [ DeanWeen ] [ Lightsword ] [ rabidus ] 03:57 [ aguycalled ] [ dr_orlovsky] [ luke-jr ] [ Saloframes ] 03:57 [ Anduck ] [ DSRelBot ] [ M1 ] [ schmidty ] 03:57 [ Ashlynn4Smitham] [ emzy ] [ mblackmblack ] [ so ] 03:57 [ asoltys ] [ eurg ] [ McViLLaN ] [ stevenroose] 03:57 [ asymptotically ] [ Evanito[m] ] [ MemeFarmer____] [ stoner19 ] 03:57 [ avril ] [ fiatjaf2 ] [ michaelfolkson] [ takinbo ] 03:57 [ azizLIGHT ] [ flight ] [ midnight ] [ technonerd ] 03:57 [ belcher_ ] [ fluffypony ] [ mryandao ] [ tiker[m] ] 03:57 [ berndj ] [ GAit ] [ nanotube ] [ treyzania ] 03:57 [ BlueMatt ] [ Galvas ] [ niftynei ] [ undeath ] 03:57 [ coconutanna- ] [ ghost43 ] [ nkuttler ] [ viasil ] 03:57 [ core_ ] [ gnusha ] [ nothingmuch ] [ waxwing ] 03:57 [ Cory ] [ HackRelay ] [ nsh ] [ willcl_ark ] 03:57 [ d3spwn ] [ harding ] [ ongo ] [ windsok ] 03:57 [ darosior ] [ jigawatt ] [ openoms ] [ Xeha ] 03:57 [ dave_uy ] [ johnhmay ] [ pigeons ] [ Zenton ] 03:57 [ dc81_ ] [ k3tan ] [ puddinpop ] 03:57 -!- Irssi: #joinmarket: Total of 75 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 74 normal] 03:58 -!- Channel #joinmarket created Wed Dec 24 06:26:02 2014 03:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #joinmarket was synced in 140 secs 04:53 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:53 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 04:54 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 04:57 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Client Quit] 04:58 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 04:59 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 05:29 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:31 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 05:35 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Client Quit] 05:38 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 05:39 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 05:40 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:40 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 06:17 -!- davterra [592e72c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.46.114.195] has joined #joinmarket 06:36 -!- davterra73 [c6368349@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.198.54.131.73] has joined #joinmarket 06:36 -!- davterra [592e72c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.46.114.195] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:37 -!- davterra73 is now known as davterra 06:55 < jigawatt> Looking at the orderbook, I'm near the bottom of the fee range so I probably need to add more btc and increase my maximum size. Can I see the joins that have recently occurred to get an idea of size/fees? 06:59 -!- Ashlynn4Smitham [~Ashlynn4S@static.57.1.216.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:09 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has joined #joinmarket 07:12 < qubenix> jigawatt: the only way to see joins that you are not a part of is to monitor blocks/mempool for jm txs, you can't be 100% sure they're from jm though. to be more sure, and to possible determine fees, you could monitor the mempool/blocks for jm coinjoins and cross reference maker changes in the orderbook. 07:18 < qubenix> jigawatt: there was someone running a site that was listing possible coinjoins found in blocks, but i can't remember/find the url (idk if it's still up even or the accuracy). maybe someone else knows more about that. 07:31 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has joined #joinmarket 07:31 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:37 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has joined #joinmarket 07:43 -!- davterra [c6368349@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.198.54.131.73] has quit [Quit: davterra] 07:44 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has quit [Quit: jonatack] 07:44 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #joinmarket 07:50 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has joined #joinmarket 07:55 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:31 < jigawatt> Thanks, I'll keep experimenting - maybe onchain fees will drop enough for someone to take a small join. 08:32 < jigawatt> Also, I noticed there is an offer with zero (absolute) fees in the orderbook. Since it hasn't been filled, does that mean takers are looking for larger size? 08:39 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has joined #joinmarket 08:43 -!- darosior [~darosior@194.36.189.246] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)] 08:43 -!- darosior [~darosior@194.36.189.246] has joined #joinmarket 08:44 -!- darosior is now known as Guest26616 08:46 -!- Guest26616 [~darosior@194.36.189.246] has quit [Client Quit] 08:50 < qubenix> jigawatt: the makers are chosen at random typically, so maybe that order just hasn't been picked while you've been watching. 08:58 < waxwing> fwiw if you checkout this branch: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/pull/768 and go into scripts/snicker you can run `python snicker-finder.py -j ` and it will identify joinmarket transactions on change for that range. 08:59 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59 < waxwing> i'm finding it taking about 4s to parse each block; it is python after all, but that's not too bad. i think the algo is pretty decent, it will pick up *some* false positives but not too many (perhaps some wasabi as well as some just general weird txs), but it should pick up all real ones i think. 08:59 < waxwing> i mean, yeah, fundamentally, it's not possible or desirable to have a full and authoritative record, although you can give it a shot. 08:59 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has joined #joinmarket 09:00 < qubenix> wow, that's really cool waxwing! 09:05 < Evanito[m]> Neat, I would think a project like that would be discouraged around here. But I suppose it's a good idea to gauge how detectable the transactions are on the mainnet. 09:06 < waxwing> Evanito[m], well no. these kind of transactions are, let's say "empirically", detectable. nobody ever pretended otherwise. 09:06 < waxwing> that we never set up some service to publish records of *very likely* (never fact - consider fakes) JM coinjoins is just because nobody decided to put in the effort to do it. 09:07 < waxwing> actually that's wrong, adlai *did* actually do that but i don't think that site's been up for a long while. it's on github though - `cjhunt`. 09:09 < waxwing> the reason i was motivated to do it for that PR was, there is a workflow (described in the documentation there) of discovering snicker or jm transactions as potential candidates, so some scanning tool is needed; the one provided is in python so slow even on fast cpus, but at least it's feasible; the alternative is setting up much better/more powerful parsing tools, e.g. blocksci. 09:10 < waxwing> algorithm used to find jm cjs there for the curious: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/8d122fce2ab7fab965825b0583a05f5ac5c3cf37/jmbitcoin/jmbitcoin/secp256k1_transaction.py#L390-L435 09:17 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #joinmarket 09:17 < waxwing> heads up, probably going to merge #796 then build a release in the next few days. 09:17 < Evanito[m]> Haha waxwing I completely understand. Just saying how I respect avoiding the head in the sand attitude about some privacy/security projects I've seen 09:19 < waxwing> yeah it's a confusing general area of discussion. you can divide privacy techniques between those that are quasi-public, and those that are actively attempting to hide their presence ("steganographic"). 09:20 < waxwing> for example payjoin is the latter. 09:21 < waxwing> and there's tons of nuance. like, the "public" ones, when it comes to on-chain analysis, always have to caveat that everything is interpretation ("satoshis are not watermarked"). the "stega-" ones can be "it depends", too, like a coinswap could hide its true significance if constructed in a certain way, or it might not. 09:33 -!- darosior [~darosior@194.36.189.246] has joined #joinmarket 09:33 -!- darosior is now known as Guest71009 10:26 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:27 -!- Guest71009 is now known as darosior 10:36 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher 10:52 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has joined #joinmarket 11:15 -!- k3tan [~pi@gateway/tor-sasl/k3tan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15 -!- k3tan [~pi@gateway/tor-sasl/k3tan] has joined #joinmarket 12:24 -!- Saloframes_ [~Saloframe@2001:ac8:21:b6::a27d] has joined #joinmarket 12:28 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:35 -!- McViLLaN [~McViLLaN@unaffiliated/mcvillan] has quit [Quit: Later] 12:43 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 12:45 -!- Saloframes_ [~Saloframe@2001:ac8:21:b6::a27d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:20 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05 -!- tralfaz [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has joined #joinmarket 14:06 -!- davterra [~davterra@gateway/tor-sasl/tralfaz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:21 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has joined #joinmarket 15:15 -!- tralfaz is now known as davterra 17:27 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #joinmarket 17:57 -!- DSRelBot [~DSRelBot@p548660b5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:57 -!- HackRelay [~jmrelayha@p548660b5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 17:59 -!- mryandao_ [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has joined #joinmarket 17:59 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0] 17:59 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:01 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07 -!- DSRelBot [~DSRelBot@p5de4aa4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 18:09 -!- HackRelay [~jmrelayha@p5de4aa4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 18:38 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.166.147.52] has joined #joinmarket 18:41 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.171.67.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:11 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.166.147.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:51 -!- Saloframes [~Saloframe@2607:9000:2000:16::a44d] has joined #joinmarket 22:26 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Quit: Bye] 22:27 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #joinmarket 22:52 -!- k3tan [~pi@gateway/tor-sasl/k3tan] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:54 -!- k3tan [~pi@gateway/tor-sasl/k3tan] has joined #joinmarket 23:48 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-117-253-52.pool80117.interbusiness.it] has joined #joinmarket --- Log closed Mon Feb 08 00:00:23 2021