--- Log opened Wed Feb 10 00:00:25 2021
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02:38 < belcher_> put the release on the twitter
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02:46 < waxwing> feel free to direct them to my account on mastodon if they have questions belcher 
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04:41 -!- mode/#joinmarket [+o waxwing] by ChanServ
04:41 -!- waxwing changed the topic of #joinmarket to: Welcome to JoinMarket: Increase Fungibility and Subsidise Your Fees | https://github.com/Joinmarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver | @joinmarket r/joinmarket | Logs: http://gnusha.org/joinmarket/ | Latest release 0.8.1 | Also on ssl cfyfz6afpgfeirst.onion:6667
04:41 -!- mode/#joinmarket [-o waxwing] by ChanServ
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04:50 < belcher> good idea
04:52 < waxwing> also hackint when you get a chance belcher thanks
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05:07 < stalledXK> /!\ this channel has moved to ##hamradio /!\
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05:09 < GorillaWarfareqI> /!\ this channel has moved to ##hamradio /!\
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05:11 < barquo> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
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05:13 < jorrakayQx> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
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05:13 < quicksilveraG> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
05:13 < Guest43987Xc> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
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05:16 < Faylite> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
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05:23 < belcher> this channel hasnt moved to any of those places
05:26 < asymptotically> belcher: are you sure?
05:26 < belcher> well... i could be wrong xD
05:27  * asymptotically goes to hamradio to talk to the REAL joinmarket devs
05:28 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] it looks v0.8.1 install is failing on RPi
05:29 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] when building cryptography python module
05:29 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] error: Can not find Rust compiler
05:29 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] looks they have introduced new dependency
05:29 < waxwing> really? wow
05:30 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] I have rustc on my laptop, that's why didn't notice before
05:30 < waxwing> worst comes to worst, i guess we can pin a previous version
05:30 < waxwing> but that does sound strange eh
05:30 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] yes, that could be an option
05:30 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] they have few releases in February already - https://pypi.org/project/cryptography/#history
05:31 < belcher> a python module needs a rust compiler?
05:31 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] will look into this
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05:32 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] https://github.com/pyca/cryptography/issues/5771
05:39 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] but guess it would be cool to have some CI again, for both x86_64 and arm
05:40 < waxwing> yes it would. did we ever have it for arm?
05:42 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] don't think so
05:42 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] but a lot of people use RPi for their Bitcoin nodes now, so I think it's important
05:42 < waxwing> oh, unquestionably
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06:06 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] funny, but non-Bitcoin friends are replying to me, they had the same wtf with that cryptopgrahpy rust dependecy thing
06:07 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] one suggested pinning to v3.3.2, will try
06:10 < waxwing> yeah sounds like a plan
06:11 < waxwing> meanwhile #803 that's a bit out of my wheelhouse, my instinct is that there isn't really an issue here, we're just linking to https sources, but i don't know maybe that's a thing. anyone know stuff about js that can comment?
06:11 < waxwing> (to state the obvious it's just the ob-watcher not the "real" code, but anyone could retort it's still running on your machine, so..)
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06:15 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] not pulling css/js from external sources is a good idea in any case
06:16 < waxwing> ok well we need to carefully audit what is added here, then, which is not something i want to do tbh. i suppose i could.
06:16 < waxwing> if it's just a diff to the other version then i guess that's easy.
06:16 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] i will review and test that one
06:17 < waxwing> cool thanks
06:57 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/pull/805
07:06 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] I think we should do a new bugfix release (v0.8.1.1?), with #801, #805 and probably also #803
07:22 < waxwing> well i don't really agree.
07:23 < waxwing> #801 is only relevant to old wallets, nothing to do with the current running code, #805 is really not our issue/problem but i for sure agree in practise it *is* an important thing.
07:23 < waxwing> and #803 is also imo pretty minor and not related to the main code.
07:24 < waxwing> so basically just #805 is worth being concerned about, and people can just be told how to fix it, it's just an installation problem, which we'll fix.
07:27 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] ok
07:27 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] #805 is most important, #801 was just simple enough fix, not touching main code, to include also, if we do release
07:28 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] but ok, probably not worth release, unless a lot of people are complaining, as the same installation issue will be with all old versions too
07:29 < waxwing> yes good point. they'd need to do the pin even if they went back.
07:33 < waxwing> i am also interested to see if we get reports saying the psbt co-signing doesn't work .. on reflection i think we might not get anyone even trying it as (a) the use-cases are obscure and (b) it isn't necessarily easy to figure out, you need to pass xpubs and do various manual things.
07:33 < waxwing> to be honest that whole area needs more investigation, for now the only case where i really understand how psbt is useful is snicker, and that's all done already.
07:33 < waxwing> ('only case' - for current JM of course, i certainly understand the use of PSBT in general!)
07:38 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] I have done some manual tx'es with JM utxos where I want to send one output to somebody, and change to another wallet I own; previously I did it by importing privkeys into Electrum, now I could do that with Core using PSBT
07:38 < waxwing> ah. so in that situation what you're saying is you needed sendtomany.
07:39 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] yes, basically, yes
07:39 < waxwing> tbh we should just add that in somewhere. or maybe just add something to that script we already have, currently it only allows an equal split between multiple addresses but should be an easy change.
07:39 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] and I'm not big fan of Electrum, I think it's UI/UX is terrible :)
07:39 < waxwing> at least on the command line.
07:39 < waxwing> oh really? i tend to think it's great. lol.
07:39 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] I think bitcoin-qt has better UI/UX
07:40 < waxwing> what i like about it in the last few years is, it's got to the point where it feels like you can do literally anything you want to do in terms of transactions.
07:40 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] for more advanced stuff I always have bitcoin-cli :)
07:41 < waxwing> right. but quoted strings and stuff on CLI for that is a complete pain.
07:41 < waxwing> i remember testing the first cut of achow's PSBT stuff on that .. was a nightmare.
07:42 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] about that just two output scenario, this will be the solution - https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/issues/797
07:43 < waxwing> well sure but why not generalise to N rather than be restricted to 2?
07:43 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] in previous job (I quit dayjob last November) there was a lot of bash scripts all around, so I have got used to that quoting and other stuff
07:43 < waxwing> yeah i never quite got comfortable with bash. it's extremely bizarre for the casual user.
07:43 < waxwing> if you use it every day i'm sure it's fine.
07:43 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] well, PSBT is more flexible solution, you are no more forced to use the same tools for tx creation and signing
07:44 < waxwing> while that's true, it hides an uncomfortable point: signing things with software that didn't create the transaction requires a much higher security bar.
07:45 < waxwing> i've been a bit hesitant about adding PSBT stuff because of that. on balance i think it's Ok to let the user examine the output, but .. it feels a slightly difficult point.
07:50 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] ordinary user will not use that stuff now anyway, that's for the people who know what they are doing (or at least think that they know)
07:50 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] and it's better than force people to deal with privkey export / import
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11:57 < Ruiz> Hi
11:58 < Ruiz> How can I check the average current makers fee? :)
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13:08 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/kristapsk] Ruiz, proper way would be to run ob-watcher locally and look at the orderbook
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15:27 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] hello!
15:30 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] getting my toes wet with joinmarket and had a question.  i will confess, the fee structure is a tad confusing atm (slowly learning).  I have a small amount of BTC that i wanted to tumble (as a taker).  which variables should I be looking at and what values can i set to make the fees as low as possible.  i dont mind waiting a few days for a
15:30 < HackRelay> tumble to finish.
15:32 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] I see some makers have very low or zero absolute fees.  but i also gather that there are txfees... if someone could point me in the right direction with a suggestion to minimize my fees, id greatly appreciate it.
15:49 < qubenix> panilo: are you using the gui or cli?
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16:03 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] gui
16:13 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] i can use either tho.  whichever is easier to explain. taking a look at the openoms guide.  id like to be careful not loose the bit of BTC im playing with, to fees.  that's all.
16:15 < belcher> panilo consider using testnet instead, then you can make mistakes and it doesnt cost anything
16:15 < belcher> if you want low miner fees you're best off waiting until periods of low demand for block space, for example sunday night
16:20 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] ah yes, both those tips make sense.
16:23 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] looks like i should basically pay attention to max_cj_fee_rel and max_cj_fee_abs , tx_fee, the number of 'counterparties' variables
16:23 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] ty for the info by the way.
16:26 < belcher> joinmarket actually asks you iirc
16:26 < belcher> the first time you use it
16:28 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] ah ok.  im reading ahead before i actually start anything. so know what to expect. ill do a test run with testnet
16:34 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/panilo] thanks alot for your replies by the way.  didnt occur to use testnet. ill go play with it for a bit. cheers
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17:14 < waxwing> signet is functional, testnet3 not so much
17:14 < waxwing> see the release notes for the latest release, on that topic
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 11 00:00:26 2021