--- Log opened Tue Mar 02 00:00:45 2021
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04:33 < waxwing> feel free to set your fee to nearly nothing, many people have done that historically, be aware that (a) random-under-a-maximum means you will only get an uncertain, somewhat minor advantage from it, and (b) the size you offer is a big determinant of whether you get chosen, since larger sizes have less liquidity
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 02 07:44:27 2021
--- Log opened Tue Mar 02 07:44:27 2021
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08:31 < openoms_> I am working to make it even easier to create watch only wallets for JM in Specter Desktop. Now that externally prepared PSBT-s can be signed with the wallet-tool it is even more interesting. Would be curious of your thougths about this issue: https://github.com/cryptoadvance/specter-desktop/issues/990
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09:21 < jm_noob> would it be safe to assume that a stash put through joinmarket and then back to cold storage would lose from its gained anonymity as time/years pass?
09:32 < belcher> i dont see how
09:35 < jm_noob> If the people you've mixed with (before putting your coins in cold storage) will combine their outputs with known/KYCed UTXOs and thus revealing their identity, then by process of elimination your cold storage is a little less anonymous (or part of a slightly smaller anon. set)
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09:43 < belcher> yeah thats true, although in practice the other coins stay inside maker's wallets and keep being used for other coinjoins indefinitely
09:43 < belcher> thats what the incentive does, the coins offered by maker's are mostly likely their own savings which would otherwise just be sitting in cold storage but is being used for coinjoins so they can earn a bit of fees... so its only very rarely that they get sent to KYC exchanges and whatnot
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10:03 < openoms_> since the process is quite nice already this rather became a quick guide with screenshots about how to import the JM mixdepths to Specter Desktop: https://github.com/cryptoadvance/specter-desktop/issues/990#issuecomment-789099352
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10:22 < yeire> Hello folks, long shot but is there a clear/known reason as to why one would get stuck on "[DEBUG]  building irc" when trying a coinjoin (with tor set in conf, according to docs)?
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10:41 < yeire> Yeah it was only trying to use Tor, not sure the hidden service even started up for me, couldn't find it. the agent is not something you'd need to set up outside of joinmarket clientserver?
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12:02 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] my intention is to find out if my maker offer may not be attractive enough for takers and possible adjust cjfee
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15:09 < belcher> in case people didnt see this https://twitter.com/Marty_P_B/status/1366737347887456260 a place called bottlepay injected an incoming coinjoin deposit because their surveillance company partner said it was high risk
15:10 < belcher> obviously this has been predicted for years, always interesting to see how its developing in real life
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15:37 < undeath> great shitstorm in the comments
15:48 < belcher> salty shitcoiners :p
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16:20 < qubenix> i always give services some plausible deniability by adding a few hops from coinjoin before deposit. has worked so far.
16:37 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] qubenix: somewhere i read they analyst upto 7 hops back and flag tx or even more? cant remember clearly nor find the info atm
16:40 < belcher> i read some surveillance companies analyze back to the last known thing they can detect, so regardless of how many times you send to yourself they would label the tx as coming from "mixing".... but yes at least its useful for plausible deniability
16:40 < belcher> have you guys seen the teleport project which implements coinswap? i hope thats the next generation of bitcoin on-chain privacy, and it can help beat this kind of thing because transactions wont be so visible as something unusual
16:42 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] well, in that case. it will solve itself because at some point none will be able to use the services anymore, once almost all coins have multi in-out -puts history :)
16:44 < belcher> no, because once the coins are deposited into a regulated exchange any past history is deleted from the point of view of the surveillance company
16:44 < belcher> so the "eventually every coin will be tainted" idea probably wont work, because there are sinks of taint as well as sources
16:45 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] ok yes, i see I havent thought far enough from the others perspective.
16:49 < belcher> i always shill this and this is another opportunity to https://github.com/cointastical/P2P-Trading-Exchanges/
16:49 < belcher> p2p exchanges where you can trade btc and they're much less likely to freeze your deposits
16:49 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] bisq does work well
16:50 < belcher> yep, its top of that list
16:50 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] i found after exchange foze and still held it freezed my balance
16:52 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] with bisq, you "join-like" the coins from maker-taker because you deposit a security deposit together with the trade amount in a single transaction, thats likely swap inputs and outputs and you end up with coin history of the trade partner.
16:53 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] thats why i think coinjoin in between trades with joinmarket can be benefit.
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17:26 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] is there any stats expect the obwatch, that can show how many txes/day coinjoins are happening? Would like to find out about how many joins i missed & wasn't part of as yg.  I can only learn I missed a running coinjoin by watching for "!hp2" chatlines. my intention is to find out if my maker offer may not be attractive enough for takers and possible
17:26 < DSRelBot> adjustfee
17:31 < Evanito[m]> sr56jtdy, There's a script you can run to analyze recent blockchain transactions and flag coinjoins. It's the `snicker` script in the GitHub repo. That's about the best you can get analysis-wise. But it's also good to note that being the most competitive offer doesn't drastically increase your chances of being selected for a join, as they are chosen under a threshold instead of by cheapest option.
17:39 < DSRelBot> [DS/sr56jtdy] i found the snicker earlier but reading quick cross thought its not ready to run on mainnet. i will look at it again. ty for pointing out both
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 03 00:00:45 2021