--- Day changed Thu Jul 30 2015
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11:21 < CJP> Github finally shows correct commit statistics about Amiko Pay, now that I've merged the prototype3 branch into main.
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13:52 < rodarmor> I've read a reasonable amount about how the lightning network would operate, but is there any discussion or analysis that I could check out about how payment channels would be set up in practice? Like, for instance, how would shoppers and merchents choose who to open payment channels? Would there be providers who were well-peered with other providers, offering good connectivity to users and merchan
13:52 < rodarmor> ts, like ISPs?
13:56 < CJP> There is no requirement on the shape of the network, or how different reponsibilities are divided over different organisations. So, it's a sort of "anything is possible", but a model similar to ISPs seems to be a likely outcome in practice.
13:58 < rodarmor> CJP: Gotcha, thanks
13:58 < CJP> Another possibility is that frequent customers open direct channels to the merchant. This offers little advantage over "simple" microchannel architectures, but it does guarantee minimum latency.
13:59 < CJP> I've made an estimate of "bad case" latency in Lightning-like networks (assuming ping time is the limiting factor), and it can actually become a second or so.
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14:01 < CJP> For some applications that's actually too slow. For instance, in public transport (subway/railway station entrance gates), transaction time is very important for traveller through-put.
14:03 < CJP> However, if you have a direct payment channel with between merchant and customer, you don't have to route over arbitrary nodes, and you can keep nodes physically close together (minimizing ping time).
14:06 < kanzure> some stuff i typed:
14:06 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/sf-bitcoin-meetup/2015-02-23-scaling-bitcoin-to-billions-of-transactions-per-day/
14:06 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/sf-bitcoin-meetup/2015-05-26-lightning-network/
14:09 < CJP> You don't know who invented micropayment channels?
14:09 < CJP> An early mention was on bitcoin.it: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contract#Example_7:_Rapidly-adjusted_.28micro.29payments_to_a_pre-determined_party
14:10 < CJP> I think Mike Hearn was an early contributor of this idea, but I'm not sure he actually invented it.
14:11 < sipa> i believe it was inspired by things he learned from satoshi
14:11 < sipa> though i'm not sure
14:11 < CJP> Oh it's a transacript of the videos.
14:12 < sipa> maybe that was for other contract usages
14:32 < kanzure> CJP: yes the words there are not my own :-)
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14:39 < Taek> Is there a list of these channels somewhere?
14:40 < CJP> What do you mean with "these channels"?
14:40 < gwillen> Taek: this one's very recent
14:41 < gwillen> Taek: it didn't have an appreciable number of people even a couple weeks ago
14:41 < gwillen> Taek: you may also be interested in #sidechains-dev
14:42 < Taek> CJP: channels where people with strong academic understandings of decentralization technologies gather and have conversations worth reading.
14:43 < Taek> gwillen: thanks!
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