--- Day changed Sat May 27 2017 00:34 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-brlikejnpdeepngq] has joined #lightning-dev 01:16 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 01:29 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:23 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 02:42 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 02:46 -!- jtimon [~quassel@117.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:50 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 03:18 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:07 -!- jtimon [~quassel@117.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 05:23 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 05:24 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 07:30 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 10:11 -!- windsok [~windsok@45.63.59.8] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 10:13 -!- windsok [~windsok@45.63.59.8] has joined #lightning-dev 11:15 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:15 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 12:28 -!- windsok [~windsok@45.63.59.8] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 12:29 -!- windsok [~windsok@45.63.59.8] has joined #lightning-dev 12:30 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34 -!- jtimon [~quassel@117.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:53 -!- n1ce [~n1ce@unaffiliated/n1ce] has joined #lightning-dev 15:11 -!- juscamarena [~justin@47.148.176.74] has joined #lightning-dev 15:12 -!- juscamarena is now known as Guest55236 15:12 -!- juscamarena_ [~justin@47.148.176.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54 -!- lightningbot [~supybot@2400:8901::f03c:91ff:febb:bbc1] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:55 -!- Taek42 [~quassel@2001:41d0:1:472e::] has joined #lightning-dev 15:56 -!- Taek [~quassel@2001:41d0:1:472e::] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56 -!- lightningbot [~supybot@2400:8901::f03c:91ff:febb:bbc1] has joined #lightning-dev 15:57 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:59 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 17:59 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-brlikejnpdeepngq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:48 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 19:20 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 19:52 -!- jannes [~jannes@095-097-246-234.static.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:02 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 20:28 -!- afdudley[m]1 [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-zcqzmdlhyeedcdiy] has joined #lightning-dev 20:36 < afdudley[m]1> hi. 20:39 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52 -!- afdudley[m]1 is now known as afdudley 21:02 * roasbeef waves at afdudley 21:08 < afdudley> Does anyone here know of anyone working on LN on Ethereum, not raiden which is a different protocol :D 21:14 < renlord> how would it work in Ethereum when its account-based and does not follow the UTXO model? 21:16 < renlord> I suppose it'd be something like LN, but it will not be LN. 21:17 < afdudley> I'm trying to sort that out :) I've also been looking for documentation regarding LTC <-> BTC transactions, and haven't been able to find anything. 21:20 <+roasbeef> afdudley: are there ven any raiden docs out there? 21:20 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20 <+roasbeef> renlord: all that's needed is a shared HTLC layer 21:21 <+roasbeef> afdudley: don't think there's any public docs concerning that, but I can prob answer any Q's 21:21 < afdudley> There is this https://github.com/raiden-network/raiden/issues/399 21:23 <+roasbeef> that issue is incorrect, we actually use hash160 so the scripts are smaller 21:25 < renlord> roasbeef: how would the cross-chain peg rates be determined and would they fluctuate? 21:25 < renlord> or is that still an outstanding issue? 21:26 < afdudley> isn't that something that would be decided by the parties in the channel? 21:26 <+roasbeef> renlord: determined by the node which controls a particular direction of a channel 21:26 < renlord> you can decide some rate well ahead of time, but given the volitality, I doubt that channel will be long-lived? 21:27 < afdudley> renlord: that seems reasonable to me. 21:27 <+roasbeef> yeh that'd likely fluctuate, but none of the discovery or exchange or these rates would be in the base LN layer 21:27 < afdudley> That seems like the major difference between LN and ilp... 21:28 < renlord> what discovery service would you even be able to use when the bulk of it is susceptible to failures and false reporting. 21:29 < afdudley> renlord: there are plenty of people working on that in the decentralized exchange space :) 21:30 < renlord> afdudley: any links? 21:31 <+roasbeef> renlord: false reporting? seems harmless, if the opportunity is gone or simplyu doesn't exist anymore, the HTLC is simply cancalled 21:33 < afdudley> renlord: here are some examples https://etherdelta.github.io/ 21:33 < afdudley> https://oasisdex.com/ 21:33 < afdudley> https://0xproject.com/ 21:33 < afdudley> also, interledger has this functionality built into the protocol. 21:34 < renlord> isn 21:35 < renlord> roasbeef: what do you mean by the HTLC is simply cancelled? Do you mean that the commitment to a HTLC is contingent on some rate condition being fulfilled? 21:36 < renlord> and if said condition was not, the HTLC would be cancelled? 21:36 < renlord> how would that work without an oracle? 21:36 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 21:36 <+roasbeef> renlord: I mean if i'm a node, and you're trying to trade with me based on obsolete of faked information, I simply will just cancel the HTLC as the onion payload says I'm the exit node, but what I'm extended doesn't reach any of my current conditions 21:36 <+roasbeef> or* 21:37 < renlord> oh I see. 21:39 <+roasbeef> all trade happen on LN, signalling layer above handles matching up potential traders. identiies of traders can be hidden by using a reandevous node within the onion, the matchmaker (or w/e) can also use this enforce match making fees (if your scheme has such a construct) 21:41 <+roasbeef> tf is PLU? lol there's waaaaay to many tokens these days :p 21:45 < renlord> dont understand how the above "decentralized" exchanges are decentralized when they are in effective control by the Ethereum Foundation. 21:45 < afdudley> renlord: that seems like a deeply non-technical detail and a mostly personal issue. 21:45 < afdudley> :) 21:45 < renlord> true. 21:45 * roasbeef giggles 22:01 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22 -!- juscamarena_ [~justin@47.148.176.74] has joined #lightning-dev 22:23 -!- Guest55236 [~justin@47.148.176.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:35 < afdudley> Alice and Bob could create a payment channel such that Alice and Bob complete their transactions and if Alice gives Charlie the last signed message and Alice's preimage, Charlie can spend the outputs, right? 22:36 < afdudley> or.. i guess, Alice and Charlie could open up another channel that is somehow linked to the channel Alice created with Bob? 22:37 < afdudley> I'm sort of thinking out loud here about transitive trust. 22:39 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 22:43 < afdudley> renlord: you're right. There is a challenge when an entity presents an order on one network, that they are the cooresponding entity on another network. But I suppose once each entity signs both of their keys on both networks, that should be sufficent. 22:44 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44 < afdudley> that's not really a lightning thing, that would be in a protocol above. 22:57 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 23:30 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 23:35 -!- moli is now known as mol 23:37 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]