--- Day changed Wed May 31 2017 00:09 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 01:42 -!- sstone [~sstone@3.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has joined #lightning-dev 01:57 -!- maaku_ [~mark@173.234.25.100] has joined #lightning-dev 01:59 -!- cdecker_ [~cdecker@mail.snyke.net] has joined #lightning-dev 01:59 -!- pepesza- [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has joined #lightning-dev 02:00 -!- moli [~IRCIdent@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 02:01 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: mol, pepesza, maaku, cdecker, cellvia 02:01 -!- cdecker_ is now known as cdecker 02:08 -!- Netsplit over, joins: cellvia 02:11 -!- jannes [~jannes@095-097-246-234.static.chello.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 02:32 < afdudley> n/m I read BIP 112, it looks like I'm just as for a two(?) line change to the normal LN contracts. 03:04 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 04:03 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 04:26 -!- moli is now known as mol 04:38 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 04:59 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 05:07 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 05:08 -!- sstone [~sstone@3.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 05:16 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57 -!- nemgun1 [~nemgun@105.101.183.75] has joined #lightning-dev 06:02 -!- nemgun [~nemgun@105.101.183.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:10 -!- jtimon [~quassel@117.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 06:34 -!- nemgun [~nemgun@105.101.183.75] has joined #lightning-dev 06:37 -!- nemgun1 [~nemgun@105.101.183.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 07:01 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 07:02 -!- JackH [~laptop@46.231.18.66] has joined #lightning-dev 08:13 -!- nemgun1 [~nemgun@105.101.183.75] has joined #lightning-dev 08:16 -!- nemgun [~nemgun@105.101.183.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 08:51 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lightning-dev 08:52 -!- JackH [~laptop@46.231.18.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 09:20 -!- [b__b] [~b__b]@ec2-54-85-45-223.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 09:38 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:44 -!- [b__b] [~b__b]@ec2-54-85-45-223.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47 -!- [b__b] [~b__b]@ec2-54-85-45-223.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 10:20 <+roasbeef> afdudley: once the HTLC's are fully cleared, they can be cancelled at any time via "backwards propagation", they can also be cancalled at anytime during clearing if the HLTC violates flow control or routing constraints (off-chain cancel) 10:21 <+roasbeef> an on-chain cancel would be after the HTLC itself reaches its aboslute timeout and is sweeped back into the sender's wallet 10:25 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:26 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 10:31 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:37 < afdudley> I think i get that. In the context of exchange, no one should be able to cancel while the taker is trying to fill. but they have a fixed amount of time to do that. 10:52 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:33 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 11:34 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 11:42 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-179-139-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:07 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 12:17 -!- jtimon [~quassel@117.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:25 -!- jtimon [~quassel@117.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 13:15 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-179-139-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lightning-dev 13:24 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:25 <+roasbeef> afdudley: if this is your clearinghouse house thingy and it's always the first hop, then the clearing house is the only one that cancel the htlc off-chain. in the multi-hop setting, it's required that one handles routing failures (for w/e reason) 13:25 <+roasbeef> afdudley: one the HTLC is fully extended, only the clearinghouse (or who ever is the dest), can safely cancel 13:26 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 13:40 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 15:12 -!- inara [~inara@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:13 -!- inara [~inara@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has joined #lightning-dev 15:17 < afdudley> Hmm... Are you saying the clearinghouse gets the cancel and the trader gets the timelock? 15:19 < afdudley> I rather the clearinghouse gets a timelock and the trader can cancel with a hash but only after some amount of time. 15:31 <+roasbeef> afdudley: didn't you want the trader to be fully committed to the trade to avoid "ghost liquidity" issues? so committed until it either goes through, or a timeout occurs. the clearing house can cancel at any time, the trader itself would be locked in till the timeout or the trade happend. my mental model of our situation: Alice -> Clearing House -> Crazy Exnet Stuff 16:08 < afdudley> Yeah. Either works. If only one side gets the cancel, I want it to be the clearinghouse, but really we should be prepared to try both and see what works best. 16:29 -!- mol [~IRCIdent@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30 -!- moli [~IRCIdent@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 16:49 < afdudley> Whomever has the cancel anytime option can create ghost liquidity, my fix for that is to force a minimum time for the order to be available. 16:57 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:59 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:2c61:1e0b:9217:ba28] has joined #lightning-dev 16:59 -!- cbits_ [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:2c61:1e0b:9217:ba28] has joined #lightning-dev 17:02 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:2c61:1e0b:9217:ba28] has quit [Client Quit] 17:02 -!- cbits_ [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:2c61:1e0b:9217:ba28] has quit [Client Quit] 17:02 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:2c61:1e0b:9217:ba28] has joined #lightning-dev 17:17 < afdudley> I think I want to take the normal LN contracts and just wrap them in a CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY? 17:25 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 17:32 -!- jannes [~jannes@095-097-246-234.static.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-laeawsvyqfjpcikp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:38 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:2c61:1e0b:9217:ba28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:49 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:115e:c428:7126:5c49] has joined #lightning-dev 17:50 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has quit [Quit: do not disturb. look busy...] 17:50 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has quit [Quit: out capturing raining bitcoins with a bamboo sieve] 17:52 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has joined #lightning-dev 17:52 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has joined #lightning-dev 17:52 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has quit [Changing host] 17:52 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has joined #lightning-dev 17:54 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lightning-dev 17:58 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has quit [Quit: do not disturb. look busy...] 17:58 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has quit [Quit: out capturing raining bitcoins with a bamboo sieve] 17:59 -!- renlord [~ry@45.76.118.157] has joined #lightning-dev 17:59 -!- renlord [~ry@45.76.118.157] has quit [Changing host] 17:59 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has joined #lightning-dev 17:59 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has joined #lightning-dev 17:59 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has quit [Changing host] 17:59 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has joined #lightning-dev 18:00 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01 -!- renlord [~ry@45.76.118.157] has joined #lightning-dev 18:01 -!- renlord [~ry@45.76.118.157] has quit [Changing host] 18:01 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has joined #lightning-dev 18:02 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has joined #lightning-dev 18:02 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has quit [Changing host] 18:02 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has joined #lightning-dev 18:03 -!- akrmn [~akrmn@96.red-83-56-224.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lightning-dev 18:05 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06 -!- renlord [~ry@45.76.118.157] has joined #lightning-dev 18:06 -!- renlord [~ry@45.76.118.157] has quit [Changing host] 18:06 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has joined #lightning-dev 18:07 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has joined #lightning-dev 18:07 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has quit [Changing host] 18:07 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has joined #lightning-dev 18:07 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:115e:c428:7126:5c49] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:21 <+roasbeef> afdudley: yeh so in the topology I sketched out above, the clearing house would be able to cancel. but I guess you'll make that enforced with bonds somehow, or if it's taking fees on success then would be in its best interest to keep the orders open till timeout or trade execution 18:22 <+roasbeef> afdudley: you can set a floor on the absolute timeout that it'll accept for that probably 18:23 <+roasbeef> also the contracts already have CSV clauses 18:27 < afdudley> Yeah. I think I'd need to just so you the (pseudo)code and then you could explain to me why that doesn't work. :) 18:27 < afdudley> Sigh, show you. 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