--- Day changed Fri Aug 11 2017 00:09 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:14 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 00:33 -!- JackH [~laptop@46.231.18.66] has joined #lightning-dev 00:53 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:13 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-218.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lightning-dev 01:38 -!- Anduck_ is now known as Anduck 02:02 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 02:03 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:03 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 02:03 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:04 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 02:04 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:05 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 02:07 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Client Quit] 02:47 -!- lightningbot [~supybot@2400:8901::f03c:91ff:febb:bbc1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47 -!- lightningbot [~supybot@2400:8901::f03c:91ff:febb:bbc1] has joined #lightning-dev 02:54 -!- lightningbot [~supybot@2400:8901::f03c:91ff:febb:bbc1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55 -!- lightningbot [~supybot@2400:8901::f03c:91ff:febb:bbc1] has joined #lightning-dev 03:32 -!- johanth_ [uid223041@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svvsnnxpbpxwjzhv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:37 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 03:37 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:38 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 03:38 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:39 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 03:57 -!- AmikoPay_CJP [~AmikoPay_@a83-163-77-195.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 04:06 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:36 -!- Netsplit over, joins: marcoagner 04:41 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-178-248-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 05:07 -!- maaku [~mark@173.234.25.100] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:08 -!- maaku [~mark@173.234.25.100] has joined #lightning-dev 05:19 -!- NicolasDorier [sid129442@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvsvivgijxndkhjb] has joined #lightning-dev 05:20 -!- jl2012 [uid133844@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gtcfogaedbnjbjyn] has joined #lightning-dev 05:20 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tyraxuesuogqrmur] has joined #lightning-dev 05:28 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 05:45 -!- Alexandrowitch [4fecb734@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.236.183.52] has joined #lightning-dev 05:45 < Alexandrowitch> hi 05:46 < cdecker> hi 05:46 < AmikoPay_CJP> hi :) 05:47 < Alexandrowitch> im blushing.. 05:48 < cdecker> No reason to :-) 05:58 < mryandao> hi 06:01 < betawaffle> hi? 06:02 < Alexandrowitch> just joking 06:03 < Alexandrowitch> cool zap-lightning wallet video , kudos, boys and girls, thank you very much. 06:04 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has left #lightning-dev [] 06:04 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has joined #lightning-dev 06:04 -!- renlord [~ry@unaffiliated/renlord] has left #lightning-dev ["running in my backyard catching bitcoins with a sieve"] 06:04 < AmikoPay_CJP> Video? Where? 06:05 < Alexandrowitch> https://medium.com/@JimmyMow/announcing-zap-a-lightning-network-wallet-47622acd89fb 06:12 < AmikoPay_CJP> Nice. What back-end implementation does it use? I assume it isn't an independent Lightning re-implementation. 06:12 < cdecker> Looks very good, thanks for sharing 06:14 < cdecker> AmikoPay_CJP, video shows it using lncli so it's probably lnd 06:20 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:33 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 06:33 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:34 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 06:38 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:53 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has joined #lightning-dev 06:58 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 07:09 -!- Alexandrowitch [4fecb734@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.236.183.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:10 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:33 -!- sh_smith [foobar@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34 -!- JackH [~laptop@46.231.18.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35 -!- sh_smith [foobar@cpe-76-174-26-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:48 -!- Alexandrowitch [4fecb734@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.236.183.52] has joined #lightning-dev 08:17 -!- Alexandrowitch [4fecb734@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.236.183.52] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:29 < betawaffle> a unilateral channel open can be one input and one output, correct? 08:29 < molz> you mean one hop? 08:30 < betawaffle> no, i mean the funding transaction 08:30 < betawaffle> on-chain 08:30 < molz> you can combine many inputs to make a tx to open your channel 08:30 < cdecker> Yep, we only need to know which output 08:31 < cdecker> Don't care about the rest of the TX 08:31 < betawaffle> i know that, but one is the minimum, correct? 08:31 < betawaffle> you don't *need* any extras 08:32 < cdecker> Right 08:32 < betawaffle> and the other party in the channel (the one who didn't open the unilateral channel) doesn't need to exist on the blockchain until close, correct? 08:33 < betawaffle> (and only if they get paid at close) 08:33 < AmikoPay_CJP> The other party has to have a public/private key pair, and you need to exchange some messages with the other party before you can safely publish the channel open transaction. 08:34 < betawaffle> sure, but the other party doesn't need to have any UTXOs on the chain 08:34 < AmikoPay_CJP> Correct. 08:35 < betawaffle> so, i theory, a new user could be on-boarded without ever creating a new UTXO on-chain 08:36 < AmikoPay_CJP> I think that is true. You can start with Lightning without first acquiring bitcoins the old-fashioned way. 08:36 < AmikoPay_CJP> That is, if someone else is prepared to fund a channel to you. 08:36 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:37 < betawaffle> which means, a new user *could* potentially do every transaction they'd ever need to via LN 08:37 < betawaffle> exchange fiat for a LN channel 08:37 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 08:38 < betawaffle> assuming the user never needs arbitration 08:38 < AmikoPay_CJP> Potentially, yes, until you need arbitration, or until you need to re-organize your channels (e.g. move funds out of some channels to create another channel). 08:39 < AmikoPay_CJP> or until you need to perform a transaction to someone who requires on-chain payment for some reason. 08:40 < betawaffle> there can be businesses who can facilitate the on-chain bits 08:40 < molz> you can have an lnd node with 0 btc, and then someone opens a channel with you and put some btc in your fund, you then can use that to pay him or someone else who opens a channel with you 08:41 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:49 < cdecker> Yes 08:49 < cdecker> But only through that channel, so someone else will have to be reachable through the funder 08:52 < betawaffle> where can i find a description of the things that have *changed* since the whitepaper? 08:53 < AmikoPay_CJP> +1 on that question :-) 08:54 < AmikoPay_CJP> A diff between the paper and the current standard. 09:14 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 09:38 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.170] has joined #lightning-dev 09:39 < alreadylate> can i do lightning transactions via a browser extension? what would be the best library for this, bcoin? 09:39 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:52 -!- Tulsene [uid52948@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yaltddtjleijdvzh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:11 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has joined #lightning-dev 10:18 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.170] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:31 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has joined #lightning-dev 10:44 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.162.170] has joined #lightning-dev 10:52 <+roasbeef> alreadylate: possibly bcoin, chjj started an implementation a few months back but it's not being actively maintained atm, he may pick it up soon 10:52 <+roasbeef> alreadylate: there's another developer mably who's been working on a chrome extension 10:53 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 10:54 < alreadylate> roasbeef yea, plasma right? seems like a lot of work left to be done though... 10:54 < alreadylate> roasbeef interesting, who is that? 10:54 <+roasbeef> mhmm, but has a bunch of potential 10:54 <+roasbeef> i'm trying to get him to join the IRC lol 10:55 <+roasbeef> the chrome extensions itself is fully functional, some very cool things can be done with it in the future 10:55 < alreadylate> i really like bcoin, everyone is so hateful towards it 10:56 <+roasbeef> bcoin is great, unfortunate that little episode spoiled folks view of it, chjj is a topnotch dev 10:56 < alreadylate> cool, is it a normal wallet or a lightning wallet? 10:56 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uwouhrtxjlfxnsce] has joined #lightning-dev 10:57 < alreadylate> roasbeef i really gotta run... but i'm leaving my laptop on, ping me a link or something :) 10:58 < lndbot1> alreadylate: check this: https://github.com/mably/lnd-chrome-extension/ 10:58 < lndbot1> It's very experimental but allows to plug LN payments onto http authentication. 10:59 -!- AmikoPay_CJP [~AmikoPay_@a83-163-77-195.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:00 <+roasbeef> alreadylate: ^ 11:01 < lndbot1> it uses my lnd web client nodejs application as a backend for now. 11:01 < lndbot1> once grpc-web is available for lnd it would make it possible to connect directly to lnd 11:02 <+roasbeef> iirc andrew had a branch locally to hook in grpc-web, was just a few lines 11:02 <+roasbeef> combined with macaroons, there're some interesting application flows possible 11:03 < lndbot1> definitely 11:04 <+roasbeef> like a website detecting the existence of the extension, using some lib to communicate with and request capaptilies for certain actions. like just to get the graph to make some cool d3.js rendering, or to be able to make payments to a certain dest of at most 100k sat, etc 11:05 <+roasbeef> UX when the pages detect the capability woudl be pretty sweet: first user review and accepts permissions to bake w/e macaroons, then the page embedds JS to call to the extension certain actions. so no copy paste, just native page flows 11:07 < lndbot1> yep everything can be imagined, capabilities can be sent as http headers to the server for example 11:08 < lndbot1> the extension could be highly customizable to allow specific behavior depending on the type of websites you are connected to, etc. 11:08 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-218.customers.ownit.se] has quit [] 11:15 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:17 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has joined #lightning-dev 11:22 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23 -!- inara [~inara@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:23 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-tyraxuesuogqrmur] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25 -!- inara [~inara@68.ip-149-56-14.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:26 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lightning-dev 11:28 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.162.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:32 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-eflillyylfqoqjfs] has joined 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13:40 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:48 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #lightning-dev 14:02 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:08 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:10 <+roasbeef> cdecker: thinking we shuld push along BOLT 10 to completion, looked at your code, would be pretty easy to throw an interface in front of the kugleblitz lib 14:10 <+roasbeef> will be nice when users don't have to manually seek out other nodes 14:10 < betawaffle> :D 14:33 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:55 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has joined #lightning-dev 15:04 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #lightning-dev 15:37 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@4.16.87.162] has joined #lightning-dev 15:58 -!- Tulsene 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