--- Day changed Mon Aug 14 2017 00:15 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 00:23 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 00:38 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 00:46 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:54 -!- shadders [~shadders@169.118.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au] has joined #lightning-dev 01:02 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:02 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:04 -!- alt0id [~jacks@pulsar.1337.cx] has left #lightning-dev [] 01:15 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 01:20 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 01:26 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-218.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lightning-dev 02:21 -!- cjd [~user@2c0f:f930:2:12::] has joined #lightning-dev 02:50 -!- cjd [~user@2c0f:f930:2:12::] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:00 -!- cjd [~user@2c0f:f930:2:12::] has joined #lightning-dev 03:09 -!- cjd [~user@2c0f:f930:2:12::] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:14 -!- cjd [~user@2c0f:f930:2:12::] has joined #lightning-dev 03:14 < alreadylate> how stable is lnd? 03:15 < alreadylate> and when can it be used with btcd (not roasbeefs fork) 03:19 < alreadylate> also, what would the recommended arrangement for a lightning wallet service? is there the equivalent of clients to the lnd node, or does each user always run their one lnd-node? 03:50 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:11 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.93.182.171] has joined #lightning-dev 05:21 -!- johanth_ [uid223041@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sbhgtapiymnpqcmp] has joined #lightning-dev 05:24 < johanth_> I'm currently implementing Bolt#11 and find it a bit awkward that each tagged field is padded to align to a 5 bit boundary. Was there a specific reason for doing this? 05:25 < johanth_> I understand that it makes each field easy to extract from the bech32 string, but you will need to do the 5 to 8 bit conversion for each field to use it 05:36 -!- jcfrei [d9a2a677@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.162.166.119] has joined #lightning-dev 05:46 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 06:24 -!- JackH [~laptop@host86-187-174-128.range86-187.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lightning-dev 07:05 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:17 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:29 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 07:34 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 08:22 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 60 seconds.] 08:22 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has joined #lightning-dev 08:34 -!- Taek42 [~quassel@2001:41d0:1:472e::] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 08:34 -!- Taek [~quassel@2001:41d0:1:472e::] has joined #lightning-dev 08:38 -!- adiabat [~adiabat@45.63.20.152] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 08:55 -!- adiabat [~adiabat@45.63.20.152] has joined #lightning-dev 08:57 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 08:58 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-218.customers.ownit.se] has quit [] 09:02 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:09 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-180-179-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 60 seconds.] 09:10 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-183-082-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #lightning-dev 09:10 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has joined #lightning-dev 09:12 -!- jtimon [~quassel@143.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lightning-dev 09:20 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 09:24 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 60 seconds.] 09:24 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has joined #lightning-dev 09:35 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lightning-dev 09:36 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 60 seconds.] 09:36 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has joined #lightning-dev 09:41 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has quit [Client Quit] 09:41 -!- rjak [~rjak@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/rjak] has joined #lightning-dev 10:08 -!- shadders [~shadders@169.118.148.122.sta.dodo.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:21 -!- cjd [~user@2c0f:f930:2:12::] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:02 -!- JackH [~laptop@host86-187-174-128.range86-187.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:09 -!- JackH [~laptop@host86-187-174-128.range86-187.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lightning-dev 11:22 -!- JackH [~laptop@host86-187-174-128.range86-187.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:40 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:43 <+roasbeef> johanth_: yeh....bolt11 abuses bech32 a bit 11:51 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lightning-dev 11:52 <+roasbeef> for now it's something deseriable as a payreq format for interopability between the various nodes, but will liekly follow up with a solution taht's a bit more aligned with what the major merchants use for uptake purposes 11:55 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 11:59 < lmatteis> roasbeef: what kind of roles to "lightweight clients" take in the LN network? Thinking of mobile clients, which cannot probably act as regular node because of their irregular internet connectivity 12:03 -!- JackH [~laptop@79-73-189-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lightning-dev 12:31 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: send payments, be the infra basis for future LN applications, active rebalancing, etc 12:42 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43 < JackH> can you give more info about active rebalancing? 12:43 < JackH> this is one of the most important topics IMO 12:47 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lightning-dev 13:03 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03 -!- arubi_ [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 13:07 -!- arubi_ is now known as arubi 13:16 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24 -!- cryptohead [~cryptohea@ipservice-092-214-184-174.092.214.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #lightning-dev 13:53 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 14:03 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 14:08 < lmatteis> rusty: i was just reading your post from way back in 2015 about "negative fees", but i'm having problems understanding how that works. https://blockstream.com/2015/09/01/lightning-network.html 14:10 < rusty> lmatteis: cdecker makes a pretty good argument that that won't happen, actually. But in theory, you might pay someone to rebalance your channels. 14:11 < lmatteis> also i'm confused about the general fee structure. there's a fee for the "funding transaction". say if i open a channel with you, i will pay the amount of fees for that funding multi-sig transaction to be confirmed 14:11 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xrcmafyvyrijtwui] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:12 < lmatteis> then for the actual "payment transactions" which are off-chain, how is that fee calcuated? i mean, the channel can last for long times... we might sign off-chain on transactions with fees lower that might actually be needed to get confirmed once we actually go on-chain 14:13 < lmatteis> or is that part of the "closing transaction"... 14:20 < lmatteis> there's little literature online on how fees actually work. like LN fees are different from bitcoin fees i presume. LN fees are just "extra amounts" that each "hop" in the network can take off before sending it along? 14:22 < lmatteis> so A sends B 0.13. B sends C 0.12. C sends D 0.11. finally D sends E 0.1 - and they all get a cent? 14:22 < lmatteis> (assuming A is trying to send E 0.1 btc) 14:22 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: this is all covered within the specification, check out bolt#2's section on the `update_fee` message, bolt#7 on how fees are set, bolt4 on fee validation by nodes 14:23 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: to calcuaote the total amount A needs to send, she walks backwards within the route (starting with the dest), and calculates the desired fee for each hop, adding that to the total accumulator 14:26 < rusty> lmatteis: what roasbeef said. It's base plus percentage, advertised by nodes for their outgoing channels. 14:35 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:36 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lightning-dev 14:42 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fmjahkkahvmfbfnw] has joined #lightning-dev 14:44 -!- r251d [~r251d@2600:1700:e350:37f0:5590:48dc:9d62:3cbe] has joined #lightning-dev 14:51 -!- r251d [~r251d@2600:1700:e350:37f0:5590:48dc:9d62:3cbe] has quit [Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com] 14:53 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 14:55 < alreadylate> is lnds rest api exactly the same as the gRPC api? 14:56 < alreadylate> (can i use the same documentation?) 15:01 <+roasbeef> alreadylate: it closely mirrors it, docs can be generated from the swagger.json file in the lnrpc folder. 15:01 < alreadylate> ace 15:01 <+roasbeef> alreadylate: btw there's also an #lnd chhannel btw 15:02 < alreadylate> might be worth just learning grpc 15:02 < alreadylate> okay, i'll check up on that! thanks 15:03 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:18 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has joined #lightning-dev 15:38 -!- alreadylate [~textual@c-250e71d5.153-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 15:49 -!- cryptohead [~cryptohea@ipservice-092-214-184-174.092.214.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.93.182.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:15 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:20 -!- jcfrei [d9a2a677@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.162.166.119] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:30 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev --- Log closed Mon Aug 14 16:51:45 2017 --- Log opened Mon Aug 14 17:06:55 2017 17:06 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has joined #lightning-dev 17:06 -!- Irssi: #lightning-dev: Total of 76 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 75 normal] 17:13 -!- afdudley [afdudleyma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-muozsbknifachugo] has joined #lightning-dev 17:14 -!- Irssi: Join to #lightning-dev was synced in 488 secs 17:18 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 17:50 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lightning-dev 17:55 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 18:00 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has joined #lightning-dev 18:06 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 18:19 -!- Guest34865 is now known as gwillen 18:19 -!- gwillen is now known as Guest66050 18:20 -!- Guest66050 [~gwillen@li450-236.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:20 -!- Guest66050 [~gwillen@unaffiliated/gwillen] has joined #lightning-dev 18:20 -!- Guest66050 is now known as gwillen 18:40 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@115.31.156.105] has joined #lightning-dev 18:43 -!- jouke [~worst@unaffiliated/komkommer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@115.31.156.105] has quit [Client Quit] 18:45 -!- jouke [~worst@unaffiliated/komkommer] has joined #lightning-dev 18:48 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:04 -!- JackH [~laptop@79-73-189-225.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49 -!- jtimon [~quassel@143.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 20:08 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #lightning-dev 20:42 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:59 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has joined #lightning-dev 21:07 -!- cfields [~quassel@unaffiliated/cfields] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08 -!- cfields [~quassel@unaffiliated/cfields] has joined #lightning-dev 21:33 -!- marcoagner [~user@177.41.201.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:45 -!- marcoagner [~user@187.113.134.150] has joined #lightning-dev 22:21 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 22:39 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 23:37 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@unaffiliated/takinbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]