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(www.adiirc.com)] 07:18 -!- Mlk [~Mlk@145.129.219.245] has joined #lightning-dev 07:26 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@68.100.207.91] has quit [Quit: .] 07:28 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 07:31 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lightning-dev 07:35 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip68-100-207-91.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: .] 07:40 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@095-129-169-194-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:42 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@68.100.207.91] has joined #lightning-dev 07:48 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 07:51 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:53 -!- Rigby [8d64421e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.100.66.30] has joined #lightning-dev 07:53 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:11 -!- Rigby [8d64421e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.100.66.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:21 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 08:37 -!- sstone [~sstone@3.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:40 < instagibbs> I have to say using satoshis some places an millisatoshis in other is very disorienting 09:41 < instagibbs> thought, just accept millisatoshis everywhere, and if it deals with on-chain, just don't let the last 3 digits be non-0 09:42 < adiabat> yeah I really don't like the millisatoshis thing. I don't think trusted IOU-stuff should be at the protocol level... 09:55 -!- jtimon [~quassel@37.134.31.164] has joined #lightning-dev 10:07 < instagibbs> or only expose satoshis, whatever 10:07 < instagibbs> consistency is key 10:08 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 10:09 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lightning-dev 10:09 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ffghqbcwirlejdhg] has joined #lightning-dev 10:11 -!- alreadylate [~textual@37-247-1-221.customers.ownit.se] has quit [] 10:11 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ofwpdbqjqvhicyel] has joined #lightning-dev 10:43 -!- int_e0 [~0EIJF4010@208.81.28.2] has joined #lightning-dev 10:53 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/saleemrashid] has joined #lightning-dev 11:10 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has 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-!- joe__ [0410d8a1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.4.16.216.161] has joined #lightning-dev 12:56 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ofwpdbqjqvhicyel] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:57 -!- dom_eclair [~dom_eclai@80.12.27.188] has joined #lightning-dev 12:59 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 13:01 -!- dom_eclair [~dom_eclai@80.12.27.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:02 -!- Mlk [~Mlk@145.129.219.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03 -!- Mlk [~Mlk@145.129.219.245] has joined #lightning-dev 13:03 -!- joe__ [0410d8a1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.4.16.216.161] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:05 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/saleemrashid] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 13:08 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has quit [] 13:09 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgpwvnvnigftvbwt] has joined #lightning-dev 13:15 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 13:32 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:33 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:34 <+roasbeef> instagibbs: yeh we only expose satoshis externally, users don't know about msat 13:36 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S0106c05627ce55f2.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:00 -!- alreadylate [~textual@customer-46-39-118-13.stosn.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:11 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S0106c05627ce55f2.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15 -!- jb55 [~jb55@S0106c05627ce55f2.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lightning-dev 14:23 -!- 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seconds] 15:10 -!- rollinDyno [~rollinDyn@cpc73676-dals20-2-0-cust366.20-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lightning-dev 15:11 -!- photonclock [~photonclo@47.37.153.193] has joined #lightning-dev 15:15 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 15:16 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 15:19 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has left #lightning-dev [] 15:37 -!- jb55 [~jb55@216-71-192-56.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:02 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 16:19 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 16:30 -!- rollinDyno [~rollinDyn@cpc73676-dals20-2-0-cust366.20-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:34 -!- jb55 [~jb55@216-71-192-56.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:45 < dcousens> instagibb / roasbeef: the approach we are taking in our impl is exposing only `milliSatoshis`, it is the lowest unit in LN therefore the only one devs should operate with. 16:45 < dcousens> Much like devs only operate with `satoshis` on the consensus level 16:46 < dcousens> The approach in JS is potentialy simpler from a type perspective though, as satoshis are always `Number`, where `milliSatoshis` are a `BN.js` (big number) object 16:47 <+roasbeef> eh, yeh just sat for us, otherwise it's confusing, msat really is nothing 16:51 -!- rollinDyno [~rollinDyn@cpc73676-dals20-2-0-cust366.20-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:52 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:54 <+roasbeef> dcousens: really everygthing is gonna be in sat, msat is yet-another-unit 16:54 < dcousens> roasbeef: why introduce it then? 16:55 <+roasbeef> its on the protocol level, mostly hidden from end users 16:56 < rollinDyno> Can I have a smart contract on the LN layer? 16:56 < dcousens> then why is the user-facing invoices support every denomination? 16:57 <+roasbeef> because options? 16:57 < dcousens> well the only way to support that option, at an API level, is to expose the 'milliSatoshis' :P 16:58 < dcousens> and rather than support *every* unit in that API, simpler to only support the millis 16:58 <+roasbeef> nah you just have satoshis 16:58 < dcousens> unless you expose fractional satoshis, you can't? 16:58 <+roasbeef> most users aren't gonna inspect the payreqs manually (looking at the hrp stuff) 16:58 <+roasbeef> you just do msat internall for accounting 16:59 < aj> (wouldn't users rather see everything converted to prices in their home currency (usd, etc) most of the time?) 17:00 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lightning-dev 17:00 < dcousens> roasbeef: if the API was locked to satoshis only, you would never be able to construct sub-satoshi HRPs... so the feature would be useless? (unless fractional satoshi) 17:04 <+roasbeef> yeh, I don't really see msat being used for anything, at least in the short term 17:04 <+roasbeef> lnd always display sat, and accepts sat 17:04 <+roasbeef> (on the rpc layer) 17:04 <+roasbeef> the msat stuff freaked some users out in the past, as if both sides end up with a fractional amount, it can look like there's a satoshi mssing 17:07 <+roasbeef> aj: yeh I guess i'm speaking from the PoV of devs too 17:16 < aj> roasbeef: yeah, suspect it's worth distinguishing the two though; give the devs protocol-level integers, give users reasonable-sized numbers in terms they're familiar with (and an audit trail that can reconcile the two) 17:20 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 17:22 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [] 17:27 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 17:47 -!- rollinDyno [~rollinDyn@cpc73676-dals20-2-0-cust366.20-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:52 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ffghqbcwirlejdhg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:55 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] practicalswift opened pull request #327: Fix typo in spellchecker ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (master...fix-typo-in-spellchecker) https://git.io/vbww9 18:09 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 18:26 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 18:31 -!- imabinarydigit01 [~IRCTestSS@52.179.96.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08 -!- Mlk [~Mlk@145.129.219.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09 -!- Mlk [~Mlk@145.129.219.245] has joined #lightning-dev 19:18 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 19:38 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 19:43 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [~StopAndDe@c-73-248-248-9.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:43 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #lightning-dev 19:46 -!- blyat [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lightning-dev 19:58 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 20:11 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 20:21 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 21:07 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:24 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 21:29 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 21:34 -!- blyat [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #lightning-dev 22:02 -!- Kalamari [~Kalamari@78.166.7.46] has joined #lightning-dev 22:04 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 22:27 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 23:05 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 23:11 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12 -!- intcat [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 23:46 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgpwvnvnigftvbwt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]