--- Day changed Sat Jan 13 2018 00:01 -!- blyat [~blyat@cpe-71-71-200-3.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:02 -!- a4401 [5918ccd7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.24.204.215] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:03 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.18] has joined #lightning-dev 00:46 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.55] has joined #lightning-dev 01:15 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #lightning-dev 01:21 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 01:23 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:24 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:991:b65a:d1c2:a738] has 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#lightning-dev 02:07 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 02:10 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:21 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.32] has joined #lightning-dev 02:28 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-haabosumoxgisvwg] has joined #lightning-dev 03:12 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 03:16 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@46.243.136.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:28 -!- booyah_ is now known as booyah 03:56 -!- tomichec [~pi@ip-86-49-245-1.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 04:10 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lightning-dev 04:34 -!- JackH [~laptop@2a02:a210:2e00:300:655a:7cbf:d627:81fb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lightning-dev 04:46 -!- JackH [~laptop@2a02:a210:2e00:300:655a:7cbf:d627:81fb] has joined #lightning-dev 05:14 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 05:15 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 05:18 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-haabosumoxgisvwg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 05:32 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:35 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #lightning-dev 05:48 -!- CubicEar_ [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 06:19 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:38 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has joined #lightning-dev 06:41 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has quit [Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com] 06:46 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has joined #lightning-dev 06:57 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has joined #lightning-dev 07:21 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:23 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #lightning-dev 07:30 -!- sandeep [~d1g1t@pdpc/supporter/active/d1g1t] has quit [Quit: sandeep] 08:09 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has joined #lightning-dev 08:10 -!- wxss [~user@91.233.116.40] has joined #lightning-dev 08:15 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has joined #lightning-dev 08:37 < scalability-junk> So when closing uncooperatively it results in 2 transactions on-chain right? 08:38 < scalability-junk> Within the eclair mobile wallet the UI is not intuitive as that closed channels and their on-chain transactions can't be linked easily and the amounts are not useful due to fees not being shown. 08:41 < scalability-junk> Also how long can a LN transaction be pending? Was testing with bitrefill and 2 transactions are just pending. 08:44 -!- vtnerd [~Lee@173-23-103-30.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lightning-dev 08:53 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:54 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 09:04 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has joined #lightning-dev 09:26 -!- kiltzman [~k1ltzman@46.102.152.118] has joined #lightning-dev 09:26 -!- kiltzman [~k1ltzman@46.102.152.118] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:28 -!- kiltzman [~k1ltzman@46.102.152.118] has joined #lightning-dev 09:28 -!- kiltzman [~k1ltzman@46.102.152.118] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:00 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has joined #lightning-dev 10:08 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lightning-dev 10:15 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/saleemrashid] has joined #lightning-dev 10:27 -!- tomichec [~pi@ip-86-49-245-1.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 10:36 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37 -!- zshlyk [~zshlyk@gateway/tor-sasl/intcat] has joined #lightning-dev 10:39 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 10:46 -!- jb55 [~jb55@184.68.16.70] has joined #lightning-dev 10:59 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:59 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05 -!- jb55 [~jb55@184.68.16.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:09 -!- jb55 [~jb55@184.68.16.70] has joined #lightning-dev 11:11 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:14 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:15 -!- ajc [807a5a22@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.122.90.34] has joined #lightning-dev 11:15 -!- ajc [807a5a22@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.122.90.34] has quit [Client Quit] 11:23 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:28 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:44 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has joined #lightning-dev 11:45 -!- Tennis [~Tennis@unaffiliated/tennis] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:50 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@unaffiliated/waxwing] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52 -!- aproc [~aproc@2605:6000:e503:8300:418f:d7bf:fc94:74f3] has joined #lightning-dev 11:53 < aproc> hello all 11:54 -!- mkowske [mkowske@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mkowske] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:58 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:59 -!- mkowske [~mkowske@141-126-140-248.dhcp.chtrptr.net] has joined #lightning-dev 11:59 -!- jb55 [~jb55@184.68.16.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59 < aproc> is http://dev.lightning.community/guides/installation/ up to date? 12:01 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@91.216.245.111] has joined #lightning-dev 12:04 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lrqgpglqmzpqhhql] has joined #lightning-dev 12:08 -!- heuristics [68e87794@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.232.119.148] has joined #lightning-dev 12:08 -!- heuristics [68e87794@gateway/web/freenode/ip.104.232.119.148] has quit [Client Quit] 12:17 -!- mkowske [~mkowske@141-126-140-248.dhcp.chtrptr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:22 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has joined #lightning-dev 12:22 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has quit [Client Quit] 12:25 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has joined #lightning-dev 12:37 -!- wxss [~user@91.233.116.40] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:45 -!- noisenode [~noisenode@unaffiliated/noisenode] has joined #lightning-dev 12:48 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:51 -!- vor [a2cba0fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.203.160.251] has joined #lightning-dev 12:59 -!- bsupes [6b0e1921@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.14.25.33] has joined #lightning-dev 13:01 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@91.216.245.111] has quit [Changing host] 13:01 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@unaffiliated/waxwing] has joined #lightning-dev 13:08 -!- bsupes [6b0e1921@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.14.25.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/saleemrashid] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1] 13:22 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 13:28 -!- nirved [~nirved@2a02:8071:b58a:3c00:991:b65a:d1c2:a738] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38 < BlueMatt> hmmm...why is short_channel_id set to point to the funding tx? Is it just there to prevent DoS'ing folks by advertising a ton of channels (and eg nodes drop all channels on non-bitcoin chain_hash'es?) Or is it also intended to help identify refuse-to-relay DoS'ers by rate-limiting their ability to announce middle hops? 13:38 < BlueMatt> maybe @roasbeef would know? 13:40 <+roasbeef> you use that to verify the funding tx actually exists (so you can't *fake* a channel) 13:40 <+roasbeef> can prob be removed after some sort of utxo commitment stuff is deployed 13:40 <+roasbeef> somethig like "merklegetblocktxn" would be helpful as well 14:05 < BlueMatt> roasbeef: yes, my question was why :p 14:06 < BlueMatt> faking a channel, afaict, is really just a DoS thing about flooding peoples' routing tables 14:16 -!- EvanR [~evan@unaffiliated/evanr] has joined #lightning-dev 14:25 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: drexl] 14:57 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 15:24 -!- marcoagner [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/marcoagner] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 15:36 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lightning-dev 15:49 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lightning-dev 16:32 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 16:32 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 16:38 -!- mkowske [~mkowske@141-126-140-248.dhcp.chtrptr.net] has joined #lightning-dev 16:40 -!- mkowske [~mkowske@141-126-140-248.dhcp.chtrptr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:45 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #lightning-dev 16:57 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:03 -!- zshlyk is now known as intcat 18:03 -!- noisenod1 [~noisenode@p5DC465C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lightning-dev 18:07 -!- noisenode [~noisenode@unaffiliated/noisenode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:22 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:28 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:34 -!- meshcollider [uid246294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lrqgpglqmzpqhhql] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:42 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:57 -!- droark [~droark@c-24-22-123-27.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 19:05 -!- mkowske [~mkowske@141-126-140-248.dhcp.chtrptr.net] has joined #lightning-dev 19:13 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has joined #lightning-dev 19:19 -!- drexl [~drexl@cpc130676-camd16-2-0-cust445.know.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: drexl] 19:25 -!- CubicEarths [~cubiceart@c-73-181-185-197.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 19:33 -!- melvster [~melvin@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lightning-dev 19:44 -!- mkowske [~mkowske@141-126-140-248.dhcp.chtrptr.net] has quit [Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com] 19:49 < renlord> clear 19:49 < renlord> ls 19:49 < renlord> oops 19:56 -!- riclas [riclas@72.210.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:31 <+roasbeef> BlueMatt: ahh yeh, goal is to avoid garbage in your network view, since we verify there's a cost to telling peeps about channels (the tx fees) 20:33 < BlueMatt> hmm, that kinda sucks, give up a lot of privacy in exchange there :/ 20:33 < BlueMatt> plus then you cant announce "fake" (settlement) channels, or channels across other chains 20:35 <+roasbeef> well advertising is even optional, as you can do a rendezvous like thing to allow others to route towards the "private" channel 20:35 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lightning-dev 20:36 <+roasbeef> you can still kinda do fake channels, just by telling the sender what to put in the final per-hop payload in the routing packet (if I get what you mean by fake settlemtn channels) 20:36 < BlueMatt> well I mean you cant act as a bridge when doing "fake" channels 20:36 <+roasbeef> across other chains, if you're routing across them, you'd need to know the height in order to get the timelocks correct 20:37 < BlueMatt> eg you may imagine two nodes adjacent to each other by some channel settled in usd or on a separate chain 20:37 < BlueMatt> no? the nodes could implicitly convert bitcoin timestamps to $WHATEVER 20:37 < BlueMatt> eg via the eth "someone dumps the bitcoin headers on eth" contract thinggy (I assume, I have no idea but someone mentioned that) 20:40 -!- Murch [~murch@c-73-223-113-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41 < BlueMatt> (or, more practically, one might imagine a sidechain of some form which inherintly has knowledge of bitcoin's height) 20:47 < kousakahonoka> Finally finished syncing the blockchain and opened a channel with faucet.lightning.community. What else channels I can make? 20:48 <+roasbeef> for the usd channel, you'd just tell me what to put in the routing payload to navigate that link (or I just know how to navigate it myself) 20:48 <+roasbeef> there's still a lot of flexibility there 20:49 <+roasbeef> the initial requirement when routing is that you respect the timelock delta of the last hop (they want 3 days spread where they can pull the htlc), to do that you either need to know their concept of time, or they just tell it to you 20:51 < BlueMatt> roasbeef: huh? my understanding is that either the sender or the receiver would need to have learned about such a channel via some external mechanism 20:51 < BlueMatt> but such a channel is not announce-able? 20:53 < BlueMatt> so such channels are largely useless to "the network", only useful to the recipient or sender, at which point they probably arent even on ln at all (cause it means last-hop is settling usd, so why the hell are you putting it in ln and not just using a usd settlement system) 20:55 -!- Amperture [~amp@24.136.5.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56 -!- Amperture [~amp@24.136.5.183] has joined #lightning-dev 21:08 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 21:34 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lightning-dev 21:46 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lightning-dev 22:12 * kousakahonoka sent a long message: kousakahonoka_2018-01-14_06:12:57.txt 22:17 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:23 < BlueMatt> * kousakahonoka sent a long message: ....heh, I dont think anyone is gonna click the link 22:29 < mryandao> what does the unit feerate_per_kw represent? kilo-WU? 22:33 < mlz> kilo-sipa 22:35 < BlueMatt> see-also https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/issues/336 22:43 < mryandao> why not change the acronym so its more intuitive 22:53 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54 -!- simlay [~simlay@gateway/tor-sasl/simlay] has joined #lightning-dev 23:06 -!- jb55 [~jb55@70-36-49-138.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:29 -!- mughat [~textual@x1-6-28-c6-8e-30-bf-4a.cpe.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. 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