--- Day changed Wed Jan 17 2018
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00:02 < luke-jr> does the Lightning spec support offline wallets? eg, where as a Lightning peer, I only keep maybe 5/100 of my private keys, and never use the channels of the 95 I don't have keys for
00:02 < luke-jr> roasbeef: ^
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00:06 <+roasbeef> luke-jr: that's an operational implementation decision, nothing in the spec prohibits that unless you have a more specific use case in mind 
00:06 < luke-jr> cool
00:06 <+roasbeef> or you mean watch only walet type thing? 
00:06 <+roasbeef> offline as in? 
00:07 < luke-jr> roasbeef: no, I mean have a 1000000 BTC wallet, with the keys for 999900 BTC in cold storage, and only 100 BTC actively used for routing and payments
00:07 < luke-jr> all of it in channels
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00:08 < icon__> what do people mean by sticker? 
00:09 < luke-jr> sticker?
00:09 < icon__> idk people talking about ordering stickers
00:09 < luke-jr> prob from some online shop
00:16 <+roasbeef> luke-jr: yeh totally possibl implementation wise, or could even modify the commitment structure a bit to have nested commitments of diff allocation 
00:16 < icon__> ahh     
00:16 <+roasbeef> icon__: there's a sticker store
00:16 < luke-jr> roasbeef: nested what?
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00:30 < windsok> icon__: https://blockstream.com/2018/01/16/lightning-charge.html
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00:49 < lndbot> <justin> When’s the sticker ico? Only payable through lightning 
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01:15 < IAmNotCicada3301> What CMS is used for the Blockstream blog?
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02:31 < Guest99532> Any suggestions for lightening wallet for Arch Linux?
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02:36 < asdfasdf> lalala
02:36 < asdfasdf> bitcoin going down!
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02:49 < cmac> yea what do people recommend for arch linux?
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02:54 < ChrissyD> hey guys
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03:15 < cmac> ayyyy
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03:31 < IAmNotCicada3301> and me coming here just to know if blockstream website uses jekyll
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03:57 < DanielMycelium> Hello, where can i find prodnet nodes to test a ligtning payment with https://store.blockstream.com - i have c-lightning running and already did some testnet payments 
04:01 < cdecker> The shop is running at 02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432@104.198.32.198 :-)
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04:19 < CubicEarths> cdecker: nice interview. I was hoping you were going to play the piano in the background
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04:33 < scalability-junk> @IAmNotCicada3301 it's using wordpress with woocommerce and the released woocommerce lightning gateway plugin.
04:34 < scalability-junk> @cmac btcd and lnd should work easily as it's just binaries so arch linux doesn't really matter.
04:34 < scalability-junk> Also same for c-lightning it's just linux so basically all of it is runnable. Not sure there is a clear recommendation.
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04:37 < ltz> hello
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05:22 < cdecker> CubicEarths: not exactly the kind of keyboard I'm used to ^^
05:22 < DanielMycelium> cdecker: is this a known bug (?): i opend a channel but accidently funded it only a tenth of what i wanted (50000sat instead of 500 000)
05:24 < DanielMycelium> now, if i want to close it, c-ligthing seems to produce a invalid tx (it has no outputs): http://bit.ly/2B7hoJU
05:24 < DanielMycelium> (error message: 16: bad-txns-vout-empty)
05:25 < DanielMycelium> and the channel is stuck in "Peer is in state CLOSINGD_SIGEXCHANGE"
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05:34 < IAmNotCicada3301> scalability-junk, thx
05:35 < tomatopeel> mad props/grats to everyone involved, seeing lots "pretty much done let's use it" kinda stuff coming out this last weekish (torguard, charge etc)
05:35 < DanielMycelium> (^ ie cosing a fresh funded channel)
05:36 < tomatopeel> it feels like christmas. maybe should get an awesome-lightning github thing on the go, I'd be interested to keep up with and maybe try to contribute  especially around any exchange stuff
05:37 < tomatopeel> haven't seen much encouraging development on the bisq/openbazaar side of things yet unfortunately
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05:46 < tomatopeel> oh it already exists, the awesome thing :) https://github.com/bcongdon/awesome-lightning-network
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05:54 < cdecker> DanielMycelium, thanks for reporting this, I'll see what we can do to improve this
05:55 < cdecker> The main issue is that the value in the channel is so low that it's all consumed by on-chain fees so we don't create outputs
05:58 < cdecker> You could probably try starting with `--override-fee-rates`, but be careful, since the low fee on-chain transactions may get stuck for a (long) while
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06:03 < cdecker> DanielMycelium, I reported this on your behalf: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/issues/632
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06:09 < DanielMycelium> cdecker: I see, whats the best option now to just forget the channel and start a new (this time bigger) one 
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06:14 < cdecker> It should be fine to keep the channel around and open a new one, or you could try to claw the content back by starting with --override-fee-rates, but it'll take quite some time for that close tx to get mined
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06:18 < DanielMycelium> cdecker: opening a new channel (to the same node) does not work:
06:18 < DanielMycelium> cli/lightning-cli fundchannel 02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432 500000                                                                                   1
06:18 < DanielMycelium> "Peer already CLOSINGD_SIGEXCHANGE"
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06:22 < cdecker> Right, it takes 100 blocks for c-lightning to completely clear the channel
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07:34 < rene4journalspir> shoutout here. I am running a webshop mainly selling stickers. for the past years we wanted to transform the shop to our own homepage and use bitcoin as a payment system but the fees are obviously way too high for small purchses like stickers... I saw the amazing blog post about wooCommerce
07:35 < rene4journalspir> however I have some questions before I want to dive into the entire system. anyone willing here to talk?
07:35 < cdecker> Sure rene4journalspir 
07:36 < rene4journalspir> do I understand correctly I need to have a virtual machine running with apache, php, mysql and wordpress
07:36 < rene4journalspir> then I install the node.js server for payment processing and link it to woocommerce wordpress plugin
07:36 < rene4journalspir> what about securing my server? 
07:36 < cdecker> Yes, the common wordpress stack + lightning charge + bitcoind + c-lightning
07:37 < rene4journalspir> a bitcoind is also needed?
07:37 < rene4journalspir> can't I just have an offline wallet as an adress so that payments go directly to cold storage?
07:37 < cdecker> Yep, it's c-lightning's lifeline to the Bitcoin network
07:37 < rene4journalspir> can't I just have an offline wallet as an adress so that payments go directly to cold storage?
07:37 < rene4journalspir> or is c lightning not running without bitcoin demond?
07:37 < cdecker> I'm afraid not, payment channels require interaction with the keys so they can't be in cold storage
07:38 < Chris_Stewart_5> Does eclair have an official channel? 
07:38 < rene4journalspir> is there a docker or vagrant vm which I can clone and configure?
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07:38 < cdecker> Yeah, sorry it's c-lightning that manages the funds, bitcoind is just there to provide information about on-chain transactions
07:38 < rene4journalspir> @cdecker... yeah that makes sense... so since I have bitcoind I am basically running a full node and also need a VM that has storage for a copy of 150 GB blockchain?
07:39 < cdecker> Currently not, we actually want people to compile their own nodes for now
07:39 < cdecker> rene4journalspir, yes, for now that's required
07:39 < rene4journalspir> can u provide help with the process of doing so?
07:40 < Chris_Stewart_5> cdecker: I think that is a good idea. Keeps the barrier to entry high while you guys are working out bugs
07:40 < rene4journalspir> well I guess there are many good tutorials out there. what do u think will be the time for me as an experienced web programmer to set up everything if I start from scratch right now?
07:40 < cdecker> Sure, I think it's best if you try testnet first though, for which we do have docker images
07:40 < cdecker> https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/blob/master/README.md
07:40 < cdecker> Yep, that's the goal Chris_Stewart_5 
07:41 < cdecker> rene4journalspir, might take a few hours, but I'd strongly suggest going for testnet first and gather the necessary information there
07:41 < Chris_Stewart_5> cdecker: Does eclair have an official channel or should i just ask on here if i have questions?
07:41 < rene4journalspir> @cdecker let me check that. that is another thing I am afraid of. I need to secure my machine if I run my own bitcoin node. I am not really an expert on that kind of stuff
07:41 < cdecker> Chris_Stewart_5, this channel is low volume enough currently so just ask here ^^
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07:41 < rene4journalspir> @chris stewart eclair has its own channel (dunno the name though) but u find it on their github project site
07:41 < suyash> exit
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07:42 < cdecker> rene4journalspir, I'd suggest setting up two VMs actually: one for bitcoind + c-lightning + lightning-charge and the other for the shop
07:42 < spencertruman> hi, any mainnet LN explorer? 
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07:43 < cdecker> And then only expose the lightning-charge interface to the webserver
07:43 < cdecker> spencertruman, not yet, working on it
07:43 < rene4journalspir> I see and when configuring the shop I can use a local IP adress of the VM that is running all the bitcoin stuff?
07:43 < spencertruman> awesome
07:45 < cdecker> Right
07:45 < rene4journalspir> at cdecker: do u know how much bandwidth the bitcoind takes per month?
07:45 < cdecker> Uff, hard to estimate
07:45 < rene4journalspir> my dedicated server only has like a terrabit or so
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07:46 < rene4journalspir> from the readme it says: Wait until bitcoind has synchronized with the testnet network. In case you use regtest, make sure you generate at least 432 blocks to activate SegWit    on the testnet the blocktime is also 10 minutes?
07:46 < cdecker> You might get a good idea here http://statoshi.info/dashboard/db/bandwidth-usage
07:47 < cdecker> On testnet we are already way past the segwit activation window so that should work right away
07:47 < cdecker> That tip is for regtest where you can generate blocks at any desired rate
07:49 < rene4journalspir> ok the docs looks straight forward to follow. so allow me some more questions before we start: where can I find the docker images for testnet? 
07:50 < spencertruman> one more random question... any mainnet node_id and ip to open a channel to? :P
07:50 < rene4journalspir> do I understand correctly I need BTC founds in order to open channels to other ligthning nodes that future customers do not have to open payment channels with my shop but can rather use their channel to whomever they have it open + onionrouting so that funds will be transfered to me?
07:51 < rene4journalspir> If I have a webshop that sells stuff why do I need to provide initial BTC funds? can't I open a payement channel without founds from my side?
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07:51 < cdecker> rene4journalspir, `docker pull cdecker/lightningd:latest` should work
07:52 < rene4journalspir> nice I will try that!
07:52 < cdecker> Funds on your end of the channel are not sufficient for them to route to you
07:52 < cdecker> After all, how can you receive money when you own all the money in the channel
07:52 < cdecker> So they'd either connect to you, or to someone that opened a channel to you
07:52 < rene4journalspir> nono sorry I miss expressed myself
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07:54 < lndbot> <jimmymow> what's the `pubkey@host` of the blockstream store?
07:54 < rene4journalspir> I have the webshop. zero btc balance but selling products to the fans of our instagram channel. they want to pay via bitcoin lightning. They have lightning channels open to whomever they wish to. I - as the shop owner - open a lightning channel with someone (but from my side no funds are provided) can't I receive incomming payments?
07:55 < cdecker> jimmymow: 02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432@104.198.32.198
07:55 < lndbot> <jimmymow> cdecker: thanks :slightly_smiling_face:
07:55 < cdecker> You can connect and have the other side fund the channel, that'd work
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07:56 < cdecker> But someone needs to add the funds to the channel, and if you're on the receiving end then the other party will need to do that
07:56 < rene4journalspir> will people do that?
07:56 < rene4journalspir> given that my webshop currently has thousands of customers
07:57 < rene4journalspir> like monthly active customers... not thousand at all over the last years...
07:57 < spencertruman> haha thanks cdecker
07:58 < rene4journalspir> well after I have received first BTC payments on the shop I'd be happy to open and found some channels
07:58 < cdecker> That can work, you could also open a channel and then use it to buy something yourself, that way you're rebalancing the channel and the funds can be used for incoming payments
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08:16 < rene4journalspir> (maybe some background info: I am the computer science phd guy interessted in crypto for years but never had the free time to actually hack stuff... so my tech knowledge is basically reading and studying whitepapers. the sister of my fiancee is running this 100k+ subsriber instagramchannel + youtube channel through which she sells stickers on the web. She would be totally willing to open her shop using lightning
08:16 < rene4journalspir> however I am kinda afraid that as a newbe in the sense that I never programmed these machines and I am not coming from security but rather middleware web applications that I fails to secure the server
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08:17 < rene4journalspir> so maybe someone here would be interessted in providing a bitcoin / lightning node which we could connect to the wordpress / webshop node?
08:17 < keymone> rene4journalspir: personally i would be wary of running somebody's docker container
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08:24 < scalability-junk> Any hints on how to improve sync speed with btcd on a rpi 3? Overclocked to 1350 and increased memory. But testnet is still taking around 20s per 5 blocks.
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08:35 < lndbot> <john-sr> https://gitter.im/ACINQ/eclair éclair channel
08:35 < weex> scalability-junk: you could sync it on a faster computer and copy over the .btcd dir
08:36 < scalability-junk> weex: ok great. Any recommendations for a faster sync on a bigger machine?
08:36 < weex> any desktop or server is likely to be faster than the rpi. btcd wll use all cores to validate for syncing.
08:38 < scalability-junk> ok torrent vs btcd download shouldn't make a difference or?
08:38 < mlz> you can use bitcoind with all 3 implementations
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08:41 < keymone> scalability-junk: you could try building from source with wumpus' arm optimizations
08:42 < scalability-junk> @keymone thanks will probably still take a considerable amount of time and therefore will sync btcd on a bigger machine first and then use that datadir.
08:43 < keymone> scalability-junk: took like 12 days for non optimized rpi3 so it all depends on how fast you need it
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08:44 < scalability-junk> Ok thanks.
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08:46 < scalability-junk> Moving one node locally using a dyn dns setup with my own domain. btcd has the upnp option so one doesn't have to manually configure the changing externalip. Something similar in lnd? Saw the issue for implementint upnp any workaround?
08:47 < scalability-junk> Such as using a dns entry instead of an externalip?
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09:06 < keymone> scalability-junk: do you explicitly listen on external ip?
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09:10 < rene4journalspir> is there any process for getting approved for the lightning mailinglist
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09:17 < scalability-junk> @keymone I want to for incoming channels yes.
09:18 < sgtmuller_> What happened here? Fee rates were default https://ghostbin.com/paste/7muuu
09:18 < sgtmuller_> And this one (separate) : https://ghostbin.com/paste/6jhcc
09:18 < sgtmuller_>  Oh and is there a timeout for connect? It keeps blinking when I accidentallly connected to the same node twice
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09:57 < Ben______> Looking forward sending btc via lightning tonight
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09:59 < ruby32> hi, wondering how this works if I buy merch from the blockstream store, how is that using the lightning network? Is there a lightning wallet I should pay with? very few details in the blog post
10:00 < kmordic> can you post the site?
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10:02 < Anduck> how do i find lnd node to open a channel with?
10:02 < Anduck> mainnet. :)
10:02 < ruby32> nevermind, just saw this reply on reddit from /u/cdecker (to a question similar to mine here): "cdecker [Lightning Network Expert] 9 points 6 hours ago: It currently is a rather involved process of downloading and compiling your own lightning client, syncing a full node, getting some funds onto the lightning node and opening a channel. This is primarily aimed at tech-savvy users that want to help out testing things, reporting bugs and that would 
10:02 < ruby32> like a trophy for their work :-)"
10:02 < ruby32> i'm referring to https://blockstream.com/2018/01/16/lightning-charge.html btw
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10:09 < keymone> scalability-junk: just listen on 0.0.0.0?
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10:11 < scalability-junk> @keymone I thought the externalip is necessary for announce messages etc.
10:11 < scalability-junk> So dns -> ip -> btcd + lnd node without externalip and mostly default config should be fine?
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10:17 < Emcy> yall not happy with blockstreams new thing i guess
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10:43 < Anduck> is there a way to add funds to an already open channel? with c-lightning
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10:43 < jb55> btw we have a mainnet club in the discord if anyone wants to gamble some sats https://discord.gg/xMby78P
10:44 < ianthius> can a payment channel be opened that isn't 50 / 50?
10:44 < ianthius> e.g. can Alice have 100sat and bob have 0 sat?
10:45 < ianthius> i am wondering if people who don't have any bitcoin will be able to open a channel and receive net more satoshis than they have ever had..
10:46 < kmordic> yes but alice can only send to bob. and bob cant send any to alice unless he funds his side of the channel.
10:47 < kmordic> ianthius: so it will work like a flow network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_network
10:48 < ianthius> kmordic: thanks. has anyone figured out a way to use LN to get satoshis to the unbanked? e.g without the unbanked person needing to have main chain bitcoin...
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10:49 < kmordic> ianthius: who are the unbanked? those who dont own bitcoin?
10:51 < ianthius> sure. you are right, i'm not being precise. Let me describe a scenario. Jane wants bitcoin, she has none. So she washes dishes for an employer who has them. Can the employer pay her?
10:51 < ianthius> Pay her on the lightning network, so she can then easily use the funds later in micropayments on LN
10:52 < kmordic> your asking if a channel can be opened without oneside having any bitcoin?
10:52 < ianthius> i think you answered yes previously to that.
10:53 < ianthius> so the limitiation is that the employer would need to lock up the amount he wants to pay her in advance and then pay it, correct?
10:53 < ianthius> she could then spend the satoshis she receives through whomever the employer is connected to in the network?
10:54 < ianthius> but the funds he has locked for payments to her cannot be used for other employees until he closes the channel...
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10:56 < kmordic> alice=boss, bob=dishwasher. alice opens channel with bob = 100 btc. bob is payed 1btc. A=99btc B=1btc. bob then opens a channel with charlie. bob sends coins through charlie to i.e. starbucks. A=99btc B=.991btc C=x
10:57 < AndyS2> ianthius: as far as I understand it, one side can be the sole payer of the creation and closing of a channel. so if you want to pay someone in Bitcoin, you can either do a normal bitcoin transaction, or open a channel between you and them on lightning, funding it entirely, and then paying that other person on lightning. I have no idea if wallets can do that, though.
10:57 < kmordic> alice can now spend btcoin through bob to charlie to starbucks.
10:58 < AndyS2> kmordic: if Bob doesn't have any bitcoin but the ones in the channel with alice yet, then bob can't create that channel with charlie, though
10:58 < kmordic> aw yeah your right....
10:58 < AndyS2> I think that's the point ianthius was wondering about in his example
10:59 < AndyS2> but maybe C also wants to pay B and funds the channel one-sidedly
10:59 < kmordic> so now C can pay B to A
10:59 < kmordic> so bobs just a middle man... fucken bob...
11:00 < ianthius> kmordic: i think it's likely A (the boss) will already have open channels to other higher net worth individuals. so B can likely reach c through other channels A has openn..
11:01 < AndyS2> as far as I understood channel creation and closing, the incentive for doing a one-sided LN channel is quite high. With Bitcoin, I pay the fee, with a one-sided channel creation, I pay the same fee, but get the chance to pay no fee in the future, or relay payments if I already have a few other channels. It's only more expensive if I open AND close the channel after paying someone once, or if fees on 
11:01 < AndyS2> LN are high (in which ...
11:01 < AndyS2> ... case more than 2 off-chain tx might be needed to make it worth it)
11:02 < kmordic> you will mostlikely keeps those funds in the channel as spending coins. like a hotwallet. if the channel closes then you can store some in your cold storage.
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11:08 < scalability-junk> What's the recommended way with multiple devices? Have one always online node (either hosted by someone else or myself) and then open a channel with this node from each device or use the always online node via remote connection? Can one connect a frontend to a remote node? Sounds problematic security wise...
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11:09 < hop3y> houston I have a problem
11:10 < AndyS2> How can lightning nodes request fees per amount even though onion routing is employed?
11:10 < AndyS2> Wouldn't that information not be visible to relaying nodes?
11:10 < hop3y> cli/lightning-cli connect 02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432 104.198.32.198
11:11 < hop3y> gives me:
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11:11 < hop3y> "channel ALL: lightning_closingd: bad reestablish msg: WIRE_ERROR 0011000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000406c696768746e696e675f636c6f73696e67643a2046756e6465722063616e6e6f74206166666f72642066656520373539353120283020616e6420313530303029"
11:11 < hop3y> any idea
11:11 < hop3y> (I need my blockstream shill t-shirt)
11:12 < kmordic> AndyS2: from my understanding the nodes are public. when you send a payment the payment is onion routed. the message send knows witch nodes its going to but the node doesnt know who send the packet.
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11:16 < ianthius> hop3y: i am going to be working on getting my t-shirts and swap as well in a day or two, when i am less busy. Can't wait to get my sticker!
11:16 < ianthius> lol     
11:17 < ianthius> also in my scenario i think Bob (the washer) can also receive funds from other LN participents through Alice which will offset the unbalanced channel between alice and bob
11:17 < hop3y> ^^     
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11:19 < ianthius> I guess i really just think we are going to struggle to get large enough payment channels open with new participants. I'm not sure what the incentive is going to be.. but perhaps we will charge them up front for locking up funds for them even though they may not re-balance the channel any time soon?
11:20 < ianthius> there will be a cost to having funds locked up for them in terms of the amount and for how long.. ALso they will need to pay the cost up front for both transactions on the chain..
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11:22 < hop3y> any idea what this means when trying to connect: "channel ALL: lightning_closingd: bad reestablish msg: WIRE_ERROR ?
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11:32 < AndyS2> kmordic: just saw my error. When I use LN, I can use multiple routes. that's the way the amounts can be obscured. they are actually public (have to be, after all that's how much the channel balances change)
11:32 < AndyS2> I guess I need sleep :)
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11:32 < AndyS2> well, 'public'. nodes on the way know the rough amount I'm trying to send over that one route.
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11:52 < luke-jr> woo, got c-lightning to build finally
11:52 < luke-jr> annoyingly, I had to give up on using system libwally-core, because the libsecp256k1 is non-standard :/
11:53 < luke-jr> (and used in c-lightning directly)
11:53 < rusty> hop3y: the other end is upset with you.  Unf. it doesn't log *why*.
11:53 < rusty> luke-jr: yes :(
11:53 < hop3y> rusty: thx
11:53 < luke-jr> anyhow, I made a Gentoo ebuild for it, and threw it in the bitcoin overlay (not marked stable for obv. reasons)
11:54 < rusty> hop3y: could you file a bug please?  If not, I can...
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11:54 < luke-jr> rusty: btw, when I suggested giving c-lightning a sane build system a few months ago, you said we should talk about it later..? is now a good time?
11:55 < hop3y> rusty: dunno how... I got connection open now to some other node...
11:56 < rusty> hop3y: I just want it to print out *what* the error was, hence if there's a bug report, I'll not forget to fix that.
11:57 < ianthius> is there a recommended breakdown of the pro's and cons of each LN implementation folks would recommend. Trying to decide which i should go with to get my node up and running
11:57 < hop3y> lightningd(106381): Broadcasting tx 02000000000101be3a4ded386f4e5d29df932be26a2fbb04d5133f1f564312069919267fc248870000
11:57 < hop3y> 0000003f2c3080000400483045022100b35aafbdf69e59afd3de432dbdda003e91c96f7dd8069aca7d2feecef5fdd826022055394e4ccbe2739bf1
11:57 < hop3y> b21392ef72b90d51cdcd57e16595093b9a205c5e0c705001473044022004785c8401d013fbe20ccdd690b279d84a5df956b517864e8f1dc38be0f9
11:58 < hop3y> 091002207b0ca368cd2d1643fa11dc2a6b7905ffa05ce4085ee58f80be61af4f017010090147522103e721533e909d22a17615debc9a86c6deed04
11:58 < hop3y> c76251b9fd639412004ee46303f12103efc460cf9af30bf745f33864e5718d0415bde5dba9becedd50545628ba59565652ae88670120: 26 error
11:58 < hop3y>  code: -26
11:58 < hop3y> error message:
11:58 < hop3y> 16: bad-txns-vout-empty
11:58 < hop3y> does that help?
11:58 < hop3y> (sorry spam)
11:58 < luke-jr> O.o     
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12:00 < chrismezzz> I took an undergrad C++ class 10 years ago, think I can figure out how to make a mainnet lightning payment in the next 2 hours before my toddler gets home?
12:01 < kmordic> chrismezzz: ull probably figure it out but it will take more then 2 hours to download the chain testnet and main.
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12:02 < kmordic> chrismezzz: if you use testnet you could use neutrino instead of downloading all of it.
12:03 < ianthius> does neutrino only support testnet?
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12:04 < chrismezzz> i have a full synced bitcoin node on my *gulp* windows machine, ive got a couple ubuntu machines running...are there any windows friendly implementations? elements project looking like linux only?
12:04 < jb55> lnd works on windows
12:04 < kmordic> ianthius: not recommended to use on main. not secure. not even recommended to use LN on main yet either 
12:05 < ianthius> kmordic: yes, i get that it's not recommended
12:05 < jb55> lol testcoiners
12:05 < kmordic> chrismezzz: i know you can run on windows, i just dont know how or any tutorials.
12:05 < chrismezzz> my linux experience is copy and pasting ncOC onto a thumb drive to get some zcash miners going
12:05 < ianthius> i wasn't sure if there was some limitiation built in or some such.
12:06 < chrismezzz> ok, i'm trying to write a laymans getting started guide cuz i cant find one ;)
12:06 < chrismezzz> thanks jb55
12:06 < ianthius> can LND be used in conjunction with a pruned bitcoind?
12:07 < jb55> I do not think so
12:07 < jb55> fullnode or neutrino I think is what lnders are using
12:07 < kmordic> chrismezzz: i have a guide for linux.
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12:07 < chrismezzz> ok, i'd love to see it kmordic, thanks. 
12:07 < ianthius> jb55: any good idea on making a decision between eclair, lnd, and c-lightning?
12:08 < jb55> ianthius: c-lightning for linux folks, eclair or lnd for windows people
12:08 < kmordic> chrismezzz: http://lightning.community/lnd/faucet/2017/01/19/lightning-network-faucet/
12:10 < mlz> jb55, lol
12:10 < chrismezzz> thanks, will be posting a walk-through when i figure it out and will tag/credit you guys on my site/twitter
12:11 < kmordic> chrismezzz: please follow these instructions for installing GO
12:11 < kmordic> chrismezzz: https://paste.ee/p/MA9Nk
12:12 < scalability-junk> What's the recommended way with multiple devices? Have one always online node (either hosted by someone else or myself) and then open a channel with this node from each device or use the always online node via remote connection? Can one connect a frontend to a remote node aka VPN or exposed RPC?
12:12 < kmordic> installing go is the biggest pain that should walk your through step by step
12:12 < chrismezzz> OK     
12:12 < kmordic> chrismezzz: the tutorial i sent you also has the LND command changed i left it in the notes.
12:13 < jb55> scalability-junk: probably the same way you run a full node + rpc calls
12:14 < mlz> so far i've managed to get only one windows user to install LND and he learned pretty quick, but many windows users gave up or just didn't have enough motivation to learn this, but it's pretty easy to set up LND on windows commandline 
12:14 < jb55> so I guess eclair is what people use on windows/
12:14 < jb55> ?     
12:14 < ianthius> luke-jr: can i run lightingd against a pruned bitcoind?
12:14 < scalability-junk>  jb55 what's your recommended way for that?
12:15 < mlz> Eclair desktop app is for all OSes
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12:15 < mlz> eclair mobile is for android phone
12:16 < jb55> scalability-junk: vpn with your lightning node? no mobile wallets support this yet though...
12:17 < scalability-junk> Yeah mobile is another issue. VPN was my suggestion, but could also be solved with always online node and opening one channel with it. Would decouple various devices. Just wanted to get some ideas/recommendations from all the people testing right now.
12:19 < jb55> scalability-junk: you wouldn't need to open a channel with it, although you could. It would probably make more sense that you can remotely controlled it to open channels
12:19 < jb55> sorry I butchered that sentence but I hope that makes sense
12:22 < scalability-junk> Yeah but the always online node might have more open channels and therefore more funds. A mobile wallet could have much less funds and only one open channel, which is easily rebalanced via the always online node. Same for the desktop. Different attack models.
12:24 < luke-jr> ianthius: I don't know
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12:24 < luke-jr> mlz: Eclair desktop app is Java, no?
12:24 < spudowiar> Scala
12:24 < luke-jr> same thing?
12:24 < spudowiar> Well, the language is better :)
12:25 < spudowiar> Also, there's some Scala to JavaScript stuff out there I think
12:25 < luke-jr> JVM is basically an OS unto itself; so it's not that Eclair supports all OSs, you're just suggesting people use a VM ;)
12:25 < spudowiar> Don't get me wrong, I'm not a JVM-apologist :)
12:25 < spudowiar> I currently use lnd, would prefer to use c-lightning but it's too buggy
12:25 < spudowiar> Lost too many testnet BTC :(
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12:27 < ianthius> luke-jr: thx. I'll give it a shot and let everyone know if it works.
12:30 < mlz> luke-jr, you have to install the jre yes
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12:34 < boi> just wanted to say that i am literally jerking off to the lightning network right now
12:34 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]     
12:34 < boi> keep up the great work
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12:35 < spudowiar> um, ok
12:35 < kmordic> yeah TMI...
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12:36 < chrismezzz> can someone set up a lightning store that sells Luke Dash Jr. jerseys?
12:36 < luke-jr> …     
12:37 < luke-jr> you mean shirts with pockets?
12:37 < ianthius> what would the jersey say? something witty about really small blocks would be my choice
12:37 < spudowiar> chrismezzz: Ask Blockstream to add it to their store
12:39 < chrismezzz> just trying to get my kid to look up to some devs as well as athletes
12:40 < spudowiar> lol     
12:42 < chrismezzz> sorry son, i know you wanted the lebron jersey, but here's an  embroidered Adam Back bowling shirt
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12:58 < chrismezzz> Looks like eclair on windows is the only option I'll get to try today. I've got my bitcoin core v0.15.1 node synced and I have eclair installed. I need to adjust my core parameters to get eclair running. I've never edited parameters or used bitcoind. The readme points to testnet only. Any advice? If this is too basic, just point me in the right direction and I'll leave y'all alone for a while
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13:11 < Chris_Stewart_5> chrismezzz: I'm looking through the codebase to see if there is a hidden parameter for livenet
13:11 < Chris_Stewart_5> chrismezzz: of course the regular disclaimers apply "can fail and lose money etc"
13:12 < chrismezzz> thanks Chris
13:12 < Chris_Stewart_5> chrismezzz: I'm going through the process myself atm :-) 
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13:13 < chrismezzz> I'm aware of the risks, thanks....bitcoin's been good to me....trying to learn/contribute where I can. hopefully will end up with a good "dummies" guide in the end
13:13 < grubles> hey if you lose money it makes everyone else's btc worth more, amirite
13:13 < Chris_Stewart_5> something like that... 
13:14 < chrismezzz> yup! if only there was a verifiable way to report btc lost :O
13:14 < ianthius> grubles: yes. it also makes your other bitcoins worth more. ;) yay!
13:15 < Chris_Stewart_5> chrismezzz: we may be SOL unless we want to run a custom build, here is the line where the chain type is parsed I believe https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair/blob/a1d69af597eb64a3a23c687ad48013ab6667876a/eclair-core/src/main/scala/fr/acinq/eclair/NodeParams.scala#L101-L105
13:16 < grubles> chrismezzz, you can always send to my address and i'll report it as lost
13:16 < Chris_Stewart_5> pm7: Right? 
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13:20 < chrismezzz> well at least the bitcoin cash folks are going to have a hard time copy and pasting this stuff in
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13:29 < ianthius> chrismezzz: they won't need it, they have 1GB blocks! lol
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13:30 < ET_> Hi, trying to buy a sticker, running cli/lightning-cli connect 02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432@104.198.32.198:9735 and it returns "not valid", any ideas?
13:31 < hop3y> remove @ and :
13:31 < hop3y> ?     
13:32 < hop3y> (and put in space :))
13:32 < ET_> sweet!
13:32 < hop3y> gg     
13:33 < kmordic> hop3y: you would think that addresses would be standard for all clients.
13:33 < hop3y> what do I know, that seemed to connect earlier, but that is as far as I've got it working
13:33 < hop3y> no joy adding funds...
13:37 < ET_> ok, now when trying to fund channel getting "feerate_per_kw 20000 below minimum 29042"
13:42 < jb55> ET_: try lightning-cli dev-setfees 29042 29042 29042
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13:44 < ET_> the setfees command worked, got back a hash after funding the channel, but still says no route when trying to pay, do I need to wait for a confirmation?
13:45 < kmordic> ET_: yes wait a few confirmations.
13:47 < ET_> standing by, 29 minutes left on the order clock... https://blockchain.info/tx/bed057e7cb059dc7c50a81f114ceb46cb04f25426d817da45cfd601e98236043
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13:54 < rene4journalspir> hey everyone I managed to install bitcoind alnd lightning.... I am currently on testnet how can I see how long it takes until it is syncronized ?
13:54 < jb55> oh everyone's probably trying to buy right now. clogging the blocks
13:55 < rene4journalspir> from here https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/blob/master/README.md  it says: Wait until bitcoind has synchronized with the testnet network. In case you use regtest, make sure you generate at least 432 blocks to activate SegWit.  Make sure that you do not have walletbroadcast=0 in your ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf, or you may run into trouble.
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14:02 < tuxx_> is there a recommendable guide to setting up a lightning node?
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14:12 < ggafo> tuxx_ github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/blob/master/docs/INSTALL.md
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14:42 < rene4journalspir> hey everyone a couple of hours ago I aked if u guys could help installing lighting charged
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14:43 < rene4journalspir> I did everything so far. I set up a new virtual machine, bitcoin deamon on testnet, clighting, and node-js
14:43 < rene4journalspir> but I am confused how to run this line from the docs: charged --api-token mySecretToken # defaults: --ln-path ~/.lightning --db-path ./charge.db --port 9112
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14:44 < rene4journalspir> mich secret token? do I just come up with one? will I get this from the lightning deamon or is charge collecting it? what about the defaults? I understand # as a comment?
14:45 < rene4journalspir> or is the API token the token that I will use for the webshop or whoever is using this?
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14:49 < rene4journalspir> actually the problem I am experiencing is that I cannot run npm install -g lightning-charge
14:50 < rene4journalspir> because when installing node modeuls in usr/local/lib it has no permission 
14:50 < rene4journalspir> but doing it with sudo also doesn't help because git commands within will not run as root
14:53 < rene4journalspir> or is the recommended way to just use the docker file? 
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16:38 < contrapumpkin> can someone comment on this? https://twitter.com/KirinDave/status/953779944764588032 intuitively it doesn't seem like it would be a problem, but I'm curious if anyone's thought more deeply about it (or ideally written about it)
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17:08 <+roasbeef> contrapumpkin: they're totally confused about how the system even works
17:08 <+roasbeef> also I wouldn't listen to anyone that spells it BitCoin... 
17:08 <+roasbeef> kek     
17:11 <+roasbeef> the chain decides on the order of transactions
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17:17 < contrapumpkin> roasbeef: the most I could sort of get out of it is that you could possibly try to fuck with a lot of channels to force a significant chunk of traffic back to the chain
17:18 < contrapumpkin> and for transactions whose value is below the amount being transacted on the channel, that might be annoying?
17:18 < contrapumpkin> err, I mean if the mainnet fees are higher than the amount you'd get out of contesting it, you might not
17:18 < contrapumpkin> that sort of mirrors the legal system though :)
17:21 <+roasbeef> contrapumpkin: well if you force them back to the chain, then you're the one that waits for the time lock delay and the other participant can immedately sweep most of their settled balance
17:22 <+roasbeef> if they're trying an invalid state claim, then you can actually use *their* funds to progressively add more fees to your punishment transaction 
17:33 < contrapumpkin> yeah
17:34 < contrapumpkin> maybe we need an FAQ page with proposed failures and why they don't apply :)
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 17 17:55:18 2018
--- Log opened Wed Jan 17 17:55:28 2018
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17:59 < CubicEarths> Would my node adjust channel fees to attempt to maintain a balanced channel?
18:00 < CubicEarths> say the channel got close to being weighted 100% on one side, it seems I would like to change more at that point for tx's bringing the channel closer to 0/100 weighting
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18:09 < ruby32> what happens when your channel is out of capacity but you have no money to pay the close channel fee?
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18:23 < szaboshi_nickamo> With c-lightning, trying to fund a channel via "cli/lightning-cli fundchannel 02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432 10000000", I get "Error packet: channel 04d032ef2c5ee7579e41825812ae7adcd18c95aac489914ef544dee99afa18ed: Unknown chain-hash 000000000933ea01ad0ee984209779baaec3ced90fa3f408719526f8d77f4943". Does anybody know what this means?
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18:50 < szaboshi_nickamo> Sorry for the spam. The reason is I was running on testnet and made a connection to a mainnet node.
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18:57 < friker> hello! привет 
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20:42 < jojeyh> szaboshi_nickamo: take to #c-lightning
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21:08 < adiabat> for those having trouble with running a full node, lit works as an SPV wallet and doesn't need a full node on your machine
21:10 < mryandao> adiabat: lnd?
21:10 < mryandao> with neutrino?
21:11 < adiabat> mryandao: no, lit
21:11 < mryandao> what's lit?
21:11 < mryandao> oh, by mit-dci
21:11 < mryandao> interesting
21:11 < adiabat> by me
21:12 < adiabat> might be easier for some people to try out
21:15 < mryandao> adiabat: thanks for sharing, gonna check it out ;)
21:15 < adiabat> sure!  it's quite buggy :)
21:16 < adiabat> but has some neat features; can concurrently connect to a bunch of testnets
21:17 < mryandao> thats cool
21:18 < adiabat> doesn't do cross-chains swaps yet but hopefully will be implemented in not too long
21:19 < adiabat> that's one student here's masters project but we'll see :)
21:19 < mryandao> whats the plan on X-chain swaps?
21:19 < mryandao> just wait for sufficient block depth on both chains?
21:19 < mlz> adiabat, but is lit interoperable with the other implementations?
21:19 < adiabat> mlz: not really now, no
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21:57 < mlz> <jimpo> There's a new revision of the client-side filtering BIP (aka. the neutrino BIP). I'd appreciate any review/feedback people have. https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/636
21:57 < mlz> adiabat, ah, thank you
22:05 < luke-jr> how feasible is it to coinjoin Lightning stuff?
22:07 <+roasbeef> luke-jr: feasible, do able
22:07 <+roasbeef> can do for both openings and closes 
22:08 <+roasbeef> would need additional synchronization tho
22:10 <+roasbeef> openings are doable as is today, as far as protocol messages
22:11 <+roasbeef> co-cop closes would need some modifications 
22:26 < ianthius> is LND able to be used with bitcoind or does it need to be used with btcd?
22:30 < mlz> ianthius, yes
22:32 < ianthius> mlz: ?? yes to which? ;)
22:33 < ianthius> i'm assuming the first
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22:38 < ianthius> with c-lighting make i am getting the error 'configure error: Cannot find python in your system path', which seems strange since I apt installed python 3 and i have 'python3' in my path..
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22:43 <+roasbeef> ianthius: answer to prior q is yeh you can use bitcoind 
22:43 <+roasbeef> ianthius: maybe it looks for just 'python'? 
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22:43 <+roasbeef> i know c-lightnign uses python for intergration tests 
22:44 < ianthius> yeah i was wondering that too, should i install an older python or should i make a symlink?
22:44 < ianthius> they list python3 as a dependency but not older versions
22:44 <+roasbeef> dunno if symlink will work, as breaking chagnes happened in python3 
22:44 < ianthius> happy to use LND though as well, just trying to get a testnet node up and running
22:46 < ianthius> i'll install older python then too. It's a new box so maybe they haven't caught that since most folks have older python already
22:49 < ianthius> Yes, that was it. needed python as well as python3
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23:34 < hop3y> I managed to open channel with c-lightning client, but when I try to make payment I get this error: "first peer not ready: WIRE_UNKNOWN_NEXT_PEER"
23:34 < hop3y> does it mean that node I'm connected to doesn't know the destination or what?
23:35 < hop3y> should I close the connection and try some other channel?
23:35 < hop3y> or just open more channels, but then the funds are not there?
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23:38 <+roasbeef> hop3y: seems like the next node in the path wasn't there
23:38 <+roasbeef> unknown_next_peer is a possible routing error message a node can report
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23:39 < hop3y> ok, so how do I get the funds back/close the channel?
23:39 < hop3y> now if I listfunds, they are gone...
23:39 <+roasbeef> hop3y: listfunds is just chain utxo i think
23:40 < hop3y> k, what is the command to see my funds?
23:40 < hop3y> that i have in lightning client... should I now close this channel and try something else?
23:40 < hop3y> roasbeef: thanks for help btw :)
23:42 <+roasbeef> hop3y: or just leave the channel open?
23:43 < hop3y> k, and open another one
23:43 < hop3y> ?     
23:43 < hop3y> sorry im stupid, but can I spend the funds in another channel then?
23:44 < hop3y> ...and do you have a suggestion for a channel when Im trying to buy a sticker from blocsktream X)
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23:44 < hop3y> Im connected to this: cli/lightning-cli connect 028501e256154aa4aa513acfc1ca498ae3e9f1a305f5c79ec0918b67ebbc78a796 195.181.243.196 9735
23:45 < hop3y> hmmm, but! { "state" : "CHANNELD_AWAITING_LOCKIN", "netaddr" :
23:45 < hop3y> ok, so I have to wait
23:46 < hop3y> the funds are not probably just locked into the channel yet!
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23:48 < ianthius> hop3y: how many confirmations does your opening channel transaction have?
23:49 < hop3y> nope the status is now       { "state" : "CHANNELD_NORMAL", "netaddr" :
23:49 < hop3y> and the error message is still the same
23:50 <+roasbeef> hop3y: check out this issue: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/issues/635
23:50 <+roasbeef> might be related 
23:51 <+roasbeef> hop3y: oh yeh also it takes 6 confs for a chan to "fully open", though it's usable after a lower number of confirmations (once it's locked in)
23:51 < hop3y> k, maybe its still that I have to wait
23:52 < hop3y> roasbeef: I had that bug yesterday, but not atm I think
23:52 < ianthius> Hey folks, i'd like to open some testnet channels, is there a good resource for finding nodes to open channels with?
23:53 < hop3y> ianthius: I have looong tx from the channel funding
23:53 < hop3y> where can I see the corresponding transaction, some explorer?
23:53 < ianthius> have funds in my client now and need to open some channels. would like to buy some starblocks coffees
23:53 < Sentineo> ianthius: try https://explorer.acinq.co/#/
23:54 < ianthius> hop3y: it will be on the normal block explorer. just look it up with the txid
23:54 < Sentineo> I did open channels with nodes there in the past
23:54 < ianthius> Sentineo: thx
23:54 < hop3y> thx     
23:54 <+roasbeef> there's also http://faucet.lightning.community/
23:56 < ianthius> roasbeef: on that one what would the port be when it doesn't specify?
23:57 < ianthius> must be 9735